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Latest comment: 2 years ago by MF-Warburg in topic The Request for Comment

This is the main discussion page of Middle English Wikipedia.

1[edit source]

Moved from "Talk:Wp/enm/" --Kaganer 18:16, 12 March 2008 (UTC)Reply

very cool. But how do we know what time period the text should be from and geographical location?

What do you qualify as "Middle English"? The Middle English of "Sir Gawain and the Green Knight" was contemporary with Chaucer's middle English, except they look nothing the same (Sir Gawain is written in a much more conservative, northern dialect). Perhaps you should say something like "All English used by Chaucer and Monmoth (sp?) is acceptable ME". Also, maybe, you should outline certain sound changes, spelling rules etc for people who want to contribute to this test wiki. All the best, Bryan BryanAJParry
I think it shouldn't matter what dialect you write in. On the Modern English Wikipedia, people post in British as well as American English so if you are reading an article, it might switch between American and British English. So in the Middle English Wikipedia, there could be different dialects, however different, even in the same article. -- Wikitiki89 23:55, 9 November 2008 (UTC)Reply

Hallo. It is trewe, as Briane haþ seyde, when ðæt man sholde scryven as in ðis cas in middel anglise, þat suiche a nam is brodre than man wolde ðinken, for it refereð to a period of foure hundred yaren, in which many different scrives manneren. Peradventure 'twere bettre þæt we formed some sort of concordat on ðis, but I fere þæt ðis coulde forfenden and demarken forcome contributiouns. IINAG

Hi. I started this wiki, but I've been a bit behind in keeping up with it. I'd say early middle English, using þ and yogh, with the full verb declension (ich stande, þou standest, he standeþ, we/ye/þey standeþ). We should probably decide on acceptable variations on OE for the wiki. --JamesR1701E 08:00, 24 September 2005 (UTC)Reply

I think that multiple varieties should be accepted, as that is part of the rich heritage of ME. However, perhaps each article should include a note of which variety it is in, and various standards for each variety could be adopted? I think this is a good idea, but I'm unsure how it will pan out. I would contribute, but I fear I do not adequately know how to write Middle English (as opposed to reading it). Jade Knight 00:30, 11 November 2005 (UTC)Reply

Let's just use the most well known variation of Middle English (I believe it's Chaucer's English?). It doesn't make sense to use multiple variations as articles shall be edited by many different persons.

Having dealt with the Old English wiki, it seems that having a standard dialect for articles would be a great idea. The Chancery Standard would probably be the most appropriate, but let's face it, that would be boring. AlmightyTim 21:04, 26 April 2006 (UTC)Reply

Excellent idea creating a Middle English language wikipedia. I am very interested in the language and also like the Anglo Saxon wikipedia. I would like to see this expanded further. --Ted-m 14:23, 18 May 2006 (UTC)Reply

Excellent idea. I'll certainly contribute to this. --Gray Porpoise 19:23, 8 August 2006 (UTC)Reply

Shan't Wikipaedia pages beeþ in a Wikipaedia namespace? --Gray Porpoise 14:55, 19 August 2006 (UTC)Reply

No, thae donot have to arte there (excuseth me, ich haven not thy owlder version of ye "th"). Ich thinke, that owlso a Middle Engerlish Wikisourca wuld be more attractive, as it arteth lichter, to finde middle engerlish scriptaes than fionding ye correct wurds fore scribing newe. And, it is wirkily a probleme withe ye Middle Engerlish, becors, for exampul, my middle engerlish goes thru a mixty of gaidhlg and cumrae. And I musseth scribe that there, as thee certainerly can see, were more dialecterly spoken or scribben ME's than wirkily a standard ME. And thenne, it wuld be useful, owlso in the Angle-Saxn Wikipaedia, to placeer a transerlation into Moderne Engerlish beneeth ye Article.
Hoping that at leest a fiuw of my ideas wille be userd,
-- 09:48, 18 January 2007 (UTC)Reply

Hwie spriekt noch Old-Engelsh!? --

It's really easier said than done to create a standard. It would certainly be simple to fix those pages already created, but since spelling wasn't quite standardized even at that time (the Pearl-poet would use different spellings within one work), one could be writing in what is technically a mixture of different dialects and not know it, and it would be difficult to clean up. I don't like the Chancery Standard, not because of difficulty, because it is probably the easiest dialect used and was standardized, but because it's from a very late period within Middle English usage and, as mentioned earlier, is boring. I would not be against using it. I just think that an earlier version would probably be more truly Middle English. --Qmwne235 22:34, 5 December 2007 (UTC)Reply

I second JamesR1701E's statement. Also, I believe based on the example of the (Modern) English Wikipedia that consistency within an article (Commonwealth vs. American English) is much more important than consistency over the entire Wikipedia, and that dialects should be accepted as long as they are very similar to the set standard, whatever that is. --Qmwne235 22:39, 5 December 2007 (UTC)Reply
Wow, you know there's something wrong when you've replied to yourself twice. Anyway, I retract my previous comment. We probably shouldn't use early Middle English. A handful of editors have already set a precedent that I believe would be more convenient to follow, even though it's really a mix of words from various points in the evolution of the language.
P.S. Most of us speak Modern English, and since this isn't an article it isn't necessary to write in Middle English here. --Qmwne235 00:37, 31 March 2008 (UTC)Reply

Okay, honestly, I'd like to see this move forward and become a wiki. The dialect, although important, probably not that important in the long run. I propose that instead of worrying about dialect, we let people do whatever dialect, and we create a dictionary that has the varied forms. Also if a particular part is brought into question, then the author presents a defense of it. I don't care what dialect of Middle English, so long as it's Middle English. (We could also have varied dialect pages, such as a Kentish or Midlands dialect variation of a page). Otherwise I say we got to get ahead with this. I want to help as much as I can.--Blackkdark 21:44, 2 March 2009 (UTC)Reply

Certaynly it is hard to playse every man, by-cause of dyversite and chaunge of langage. - 15:24, 22 November 2019 (UTC)Reply

I think that because Middle English had many dialects and no standardized spelling, Middle English Wikipedia shouldn’t either. We should encourage this sort of diversity and different spellings can be used even in the same article Vikipad (talk) 20:09, 29 June 2021 (UTC)Reply

what a wonderful discussionVikipad (talk) 18:07, 30 June 2021 (UTC)Reply

@Vikipad:, please don’t write “what a wonderful discussion” in discussions that happened over a decade ago as it is spamming. If you have a comment that you feel is important, feel free to write it. -🇺🇦Slava🇺🇦Ukraini🇺🇦Heroyam🇺🇦Slava🇺🇦(talk)🇺🇦 11:34, 3 May 2022 (UTC)Reply
1️⃣0️⃣0️⃣Your discussions are amazing. 💯-Your discussions are amazing (talk) 12:13, 22 May 2022 (UTC)Reply
@Your discussions are amazing:, please don’t leave spam comments in discussions about Middle English Wikipedia. -🇺🇦Slava🇺🇦Ukraini🇺🇦Heroyam🇺🇦Slava🇺🇦(talk)🇺🇦 12:29, 22 May 2022 (UTC)Reply

2[edit source]

Heh, the paragraph under "[[|Test-wp/enm/Main Page#Purpose|Purpose]]" is actually modern English with all the ths replaced by þ. The rest of the page looks more legitimately Middle though. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 19:03, 2 June 2006 (UTC)Reply

except how can you control that? I'm not sure. -- 06:58, 10 December 2006 (UTC)Reply

Well, we'd need to figure outhow to say words such as "appreciate" in Middle English. I'll work on finding synonyms that would work. --Qmwne235 22:07, 5 December 2007 (UTC)Reply
Ok, I did the best I could, feel free to rip it to shreds. I know my use of "ialloued" is questionable, but it has the connotation of appreciated, and I couldn't find an exact synonym. --Qmwne235 00:39, 31 March 2008 (UTC)Reply

this discussion is wonderful Vikipad (talk) 20:11, 29 June 2021 (UTC)Reply

@Vikipad: I for one agree. This entire wiki is wonderful! Alfred our king (talk) 18:01, 24 July 2021 (UTC)Reply
congratulations to the editor Vikipad (talk) 21:52, 27 July 2021 (UTC)Reply
@Vikipad, Alfred our king: please don’t spam this talk page. This isn’t a chat room. It’s only for things related to Middle English Wikipedia. -Gifnk dlm 2020 (talk) 21:56, 27 July 2021 (UTC)Reply

1️⃣0️⃣0️⃣Your discussions are amazing. 💯-Your discussions are amazing (talk) 12:15, 22 May 2022 (UTC)Reply

Ars-Metrike[edit source]

Will this be included as an article? if so, will it be modern knowledge written in Middle English? or the knowledge of the time? Kittybriton (Kittybriton's home page-- 03:10, 18 February 2007 (UTC)Reply

amazingVikipad (talk) 23:08, 16 August 2021 (UTC)Reply

1️⃣0️⃣0️⃣Your discussions are amazing. 💯-Your discussions are amazing (talk) 12:20, 22 May 2022 (UTC)Reply

Special:Allpages[edit source]

Special:Allpages Template:Wp/enm/Unsigned

1️⃣0️⃣0️⃣Your discussions are amazing. 💯-Your discussions are amazing (talk) 12:21, 22 May 2022 (UTC)Reply

þat costeþ noght[edit source]

"þat costeþ noght" - I don't know Middle English, but since I know German I guess this means "that costs nothing"? You know, Wikipedia is free as in freedom, not as in free beer... --MF-W {a, b} Visit IRC! 17:00, 6 December 2007 (UTC)Reply

I speak Proto-Mediaevel-Limburgish very good (to be honest; I wrote over 40 words! Yes, really 40 out of 9000) and it sounds and looks like Old/Middle English. Dat kostč nōgt is Plātter (Proto-Mediaevel-Limburgish) for which doesn't have a price/that costs nothing. So, yes you're right and it isn't a good translation. Maybe something like þat frē is is better. --Ooswesthoesbes 17:10, 6 December 2007 (UTC)Reply
I think the point is that it doesn't cost anything to use it. "Frē" is not a good translation; it more closely refers to freedom than cost. I support the current translation, as there is no other alternative I can think of. --Qmwne235 00:39, 19 December 2007 (UTC)Reply
I don't speak Middle English, but I can speak Old Limburgish. It seems to me that þat costeþ noght is an error. In Plātteren (Old Limburgish) maybe something like dēn frē an-wōrkedan wisdōmbōk. Translation: the encyclopedia everbybody can work on. Maybe this is an optional for Middle English too? --Ooswesthoesbes 06:09, 19 December 2007 (UTC)Reply
Oh, I see what you mean - freedom is the desired connotation. Using Ooswesthoesbes's idea, that would be "on whiche everychoun/alle can worke", roughly. Well, we'll need more input, and be the traffic on this test, that'll take a long time to get. --Qmwne235 00:30, 31 March 2008 (UTC)Reply
1️⃣0️⃣0️⃣Your discussions are amazing. 💯-Your discussions are amazing (talk) 12:22, 22 May 2022 (UTC)Reply

Interwiki[edit source]

It seems that many other test projects are using interwiki links, whereas Middle English largely is not. Should we be using them? --Qmwne235 00:37, 31 March 2008 (UTC)Reply

@Qmwne235: what do you mean by interwiki links? If you mean linking to articles in different wikis I think that we shouldn’t use them - instead we should use this opportunity to expand Middle English Wikipedia and create new pages by clicking on those red links. However, if you mean linking pages to pages about the same topic in other languages, I think this should be kept until after this wiki gets a subdomain and we will be able to do this using wikidata. -Gifnk dlm 2020 (talk) 18:41, 14 May 2021 (UTC)Reply
BTW, I know you left this comment more than 13 years ago. This test wiki is much more active now as can be seen here. -Gifnk dlm 2020 (talk) 18:46, 14 May 2021 (UTC)Reply
@Gifnk dlm 2020 Wikidata did not exist back then. 1234qwer1234qwer4 (talk) 14:54, 15 May 2021 (UTC)Reply
@1234qwer1234qwer4: oh I see, so that’s why some articles in this test wiki listed articles in other languages in their source code. Btw, is my assumption that you can only link articles to articles about the same topic in other languages using wikidata once the project gets a subdomain correct? -Gifnk dlm 2020 (talk) 15:10, 15 May 2021 (UTC)Reply
Well, interwiki links using the page's source code will still work, but they are deprecated by Wikidata in most cases. Their usage will mostly be limited to interwiki links of user pages and the like, where items for the page would be out of Wikidata's scope, although they may sometimes be used to link to sections of articles in other languages (better done by connecting a redirect to the Wikidata item, as the plain interwiki link would need to be added to every language version of an article on its own). 1234qwer1234qwer4 (talk) 20:32, 15 May 2021 (UTC)Reply
@1234qwer1234qwer4: I see. Thank you very much! I mean to ask is it right that right now I can’t go to [1] and add enm:Florida? Thanks in advance, -Gifnk dlm 2020 (talk) 11:21, 16 May 2021 (UTC)Reply
@Gifnk dlm 2020 Yes, Wikidata sitelinks currently don't work for Incubator sub-projects, though there are plans to change this. 1234qwer1234qwer4 (talk) 11:33, 16 May 2021 (UTC)Reply
@1234qwer1234qwer4: good to know. I think that if this plane is implemented it will help Middle English Wikipedia a lot! -Gifnk dlm 2020 (talk) 11:50, 16 May 2021 (UTC)Reply
@Gifnk dlm 2020 I apologize that I have no idea what I meant. I was 14 years old at the time. Qmwne235 04:30, 28 July 2021 (UTC)Reply
@Qmwne235:, ok I see that’s understandable. In the discussion above we assumed that you meant linking a page to pages about the same topic in other languages. @1234qwer1234qwer4: linked to phab:T54971 though this was suggested in 2023 so I don’t think we should keep our hopes high on this. Are you interested in contributing to Middle English Wikipedia again or have you moved on? -Gifnk dlm 2020 (talk) 11:52, 28 July 2021 (UTC)Reply
Also, in case you are interested, there’s an open request to change the WMF policy to start allowing new wikis in ancient languages. (Currently that’s not allowed so even if Middle English Wikipedia got 100,000 articles there would still be no chance of an enm.wikipedia.org). You can view it here. -Gifnk dlm 2020 (talk) 12:10, 28 July 2021 (UTC)Reply

1️⃣0️⃣0️⃣Your discussions are amazing. 💯-Your discussions are amazing (talk) 12:23, 22 May 2022 (UTC)Reply

Main Page[edit source]

Hello! Please move "Wp/enm" to a subpage "Wp/enm/Main_Page" with "Main Page" translated. And note that you need to request a wiki at m:RFL, though I think it will probably be rejected... SPQRobin 00:19, 27 July 2008 (UTC)Reply

1️⃣0️⃣0️⃣Your discussions are amazing. 💯-Your discussions are amazing (talk) 12:23, 22 May 2022 (UTC)Reply

where to learn middle english?[edit source]

i want to contribuite but i cant find a middle english course or lessons, any help? -- 19:46, 2 February 2011 (UTC)Reply

I know it's difficult to find sites that provide material to learn Middle English, if you don't know ask me ;) I know Middle English because I learnt Old English it helps, I also searched on the internet but it's hard to find. --Stardsen (talk) 00:55, 4 February 2013 (UTC)Reply

Piers Ploughman[edit source]

I am certainly no authority, but this Everyman paperback sitting on my desk beside the teamug is helpful:
The Vision of Piers Plowman: A Complete Edition of the B-Text, ed. A.V.C. Schmidt, Balliol, Oxford.
Dent, 1978, 1987; Everyman, 1978, 1987.
It has a 26-page glossary in fine print, e.g.

wortes, vegetables

and a single page of Latin and French terms.
The poem itself is 263 pages of Middle English, glossed down the right-hand side.

In my limited experience, similarly glossed editions of The Canterbury Tales are easier to find than this book, which is why I bought Piers for 25c.
Good luck, Varlaam (talk) 16:27, 29 June 2013 (UTC)Reply

So probably the best online resource for this is the Middle English Dictionary hosted by the University of Michigan. It is searchable ME -> ModE and ModE -> ME; accepts searches with all the variant ME spellings; and each entry breaks the ME word down into all its senses and sub-senses, with extensive quotations from original texts which give the estimated time of writing. A very very useful website. Here's the link: https://quod.lib.umich.edu/m/middle-english-dictionary/dictionary Another site I particularly like is called EngleSaxe. It is focussed primarily on very early Middle English, but the options allow you to change texts between different spelling systems from typical Old English spellings to Chaucerian spellings. Each ME word is clickable to bring up its meaning(s) tenses for strong and irregular verbs, and attested spellings in various texts. There are pages on grammar too. Very handy - a hidden gem, and personally probably my favourite website ever. Here's the link: https://adoneilson.com/eme/index.html Ich hope ȝow likeþ mi red! -Laʒamon Æft-iboren (talk) 22:50, 7 June 2021 (BST)

@Laʒamon Æft-iboren:, thank you very much for sharing with us this valuable resource! -C64 is the best computer (talk) 17:38, 10 October 2021 (UTC)Reply
1️⃣0️⃣0️⃣Your discussions are amazing. 💯-Your discussions are amazing (talk) 12:23, 22 May 2022 (UTC)Reply

But...[edit source]

You know enm.wikipedia cannot be created, right?--Seonookim (talk) 04:22, 8 June 2013 (UTC)Reply

Contributors to this test will sooner or later get aware of it, probably. But we have an extra section for such wikis on I:Featured wikis. One can never know if policy won't change in the future, and the Incubator community has made no decision to disallow test-wikis in extinct languages. --MF-W {a, b} 05:01, 9 June 2013 (UTC)Reply
If the policy can be changed for Wp/grc, then enm might be made to follow.
There has certainly been no shortage of aborted Wikipedia projects for living languages that had less life to them than the "dead" languages often do.
Varlaam (talk) 16:45, 29 June 2013 (UTC)Reply
@Varlaam: I know the message was left nearly 9 years ago, but Middle English Wikipedia is much larger now. Are you interested in contributing? -📜GIFNK📖DLM💻MMXX🏰 (TALK🎙 | CONTRIBS) 14:42, 12 February 2022 (UTC)Reply

1️⃣0️⃣0️⃣Your discussions are amazing. 💯-Your discussions are amazing (talk) 12:24, 22 May 2022 (UTC)Reply

"Ðe list below"[edit source]

The project tends to use thorn in "the", hence Þe. Is eth valid? Varlaam (talk) 15:23, 30 June 2013 (UTC)Reply

And shouldn't that list be a "liste"? Varlaam (talk)
It doesn't have to be a "liste", although the s in list should probably be long, so "liſt" or "liſte". "Ðe" is valid, but it probably be "Þe" because the rest of the phrase isn't super-archaic like the spelling "Ðe" is. JustinCB (talk) 00:27, 30 November 2017 (UTC)Reply
! What a page!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Vikipad (talk) 21:53, 27 July 2021 (UTC)Reply

1️⃣0️⃣0️⃣Your discussions are amazing. 💯-Your discussions are amazing (talk) 12:24, 22 May 2022 (UTC)Reply

project deletion request?[edit source]

--Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 14:49, 12 September 2017 (UTC)Reply

It appears that this project will stay for the time being. 22:17, 25 November 2019 (UTC)Reply
1️⃣0️⃣0️⃣Your discussions are amazing. 💯-Your discussions are amazing (talk) 12:25, 22 May 2022 (UTC)Reply

Not including "ſ" in page titles?[edit source]

I have notices in some pages, such as Wp/enm/Scottish langage an "s" is being used in page titles instead of "ſ", is there any reasoning for this? Template:Wp/enm/Unsigned

Looks like I forgot to put the "ſ". Feel free to fix any other ones you find. --CanadianToast (talk) 16:01, 27 January 2021 (UTC)Reply
@GoodClover, if you are still active, can you explain when should I use ſ, and when s? Thanks in advance, -Gifnk dlm 2020 (talk) 21:57, 24 February 2021 (UTC)Reply
@Gifnk dlm 2020 I've just followed the rules listed at w:Long s#Rules, they may not always be correct, but they're generally ok to follow. --GoodClover (talk) 09:23, 25 February 2021 (UTC)Reply
@GoodClover, sorry for the late reply, but this article refers to the rules used in the 17th and 18th century. I didn’t find any info about the use of long s in Middle English (11th-15th century). -Gifnk dlm 2020 (talk) 08:52, 28 February 2021 (UTC)Reply

1️⃣0️⃣0️⃣Your discussions are amazing. 💯-Your discussions are amazing (talk) 12:26, 22 May 2022 (UTC)Reply

Completely redesign the main page[edit source]

It doesn’t make sense to put a list of all the articles in the main page especially since it’s possible to see the same list either using the category or by looking all the pages with the prefix wp/enm/. I think that we should list articles of things relevant to the Middle English, sort of like in Norfolk Wikipedia], they wrote a list of things relevant for the Norfolks. I think that their main page is very good and maybe we can even directly translate it to Middle English. Also we can take inspiration from Norman Wikipedia and Old English Wikipedia. I would like to hear your thoughts about this. -Gifnk dlm 2020 (talk) 16:18, 9 February 2021 (UTC)Reply

By a direct translation I mean of everything except things about Norfolk and Pitcairn. Those should be replaced with things relevant for the Middle English. -Gifnk dlm 2020 (talk) 06:58, 10 February 2021 (UTC)Reply
I think it's a good idea. --CanadianToast (talk) 00:18, 11 February 2021 (UTC)Reply
@CanadianToast, I copied it and changed. Can you please check if the new main page is ok? Also feel free to add or remove subjects - This is Middle English Wikipedia nor Norfolk Wikipedia, the title pages don’t have to look the same. -Gifnk dlm 2020 (talk) 19:00, 11 February 2021 (UTC)Reply
@Gifnk dlm 2020 It looks fine to me. --CanadianToast (talk) 22:30, 11 February 2021 (UTC)Reply

logo on the front page[edit source]

the "wikipaedia" logo is rendered like this as of feb 26, 2021:


the small caps text uses the HTML small tag. this poorly replicates the wikipedia logo's proportions, and fails to display in the mobile view. by removing the small tag, changing the text to say WikipaediA (yes, the capitals are important) and using appending style="font-size:30pt;font-family:Linux Libertine O;" will display it like this:


this way, it looks better, and renders on mobile. the only problem i can find is that it might look strange seeing WikipaediA for anyone using screen readers.

here's the full logo with the new code:

Þe Free Encyclopaedia

Jkrosado (talk) 18:22, 26 February 2021 (UTC)Reply

@Jkrosado Thanks very much. --CanadianToast (talk) 21:51, 26 February 2021 (UTC)Reply

Citations?[edit source]

Should wp/enm pages have citations and references? 16:35, 27 February 2021 (UTC)Reply

I tried to put citations in Wp/enm/Texas, but the problem is that I don’t think that option currently exists. I simple English Wikipedia which I use as a reference point before editing in Wp/enm, if I edit using visual editing, I see the option “Cite”, but in Wp/enm I don’t. Does anybody know why is it so or should we contact the admins? -Gifnk dlm 2020 (talk) 21:21, 3 March 2021 (UTC)Reply
@Ebe123, do you know why can’t I cite sources and how to fix this? Thanks in advance, -Gifnk dlm 2020 (talk) 18:45, 4 March 2021 (UTC)Reply

@Gifnk dlm 2020:, @Ebe123:, Wp/enn/MMXX uses citations. How do they do it? -C64 is the best computer (talk) 17:43, 10 October 2021 (UTC)Reply

@C64 is the best computer:, sorry, I missed your question. You can use Template:Wp/enm/Cite web which was only created after this question was asked. I recommend to first create it in visual editing, then in source code editing add <ref></ref> around it. -Gifnk dlm 2020 If only Middle English Wikipedia could be saved(talk) 14:21, 11 October 2021 (UTC)Reply

Spelling of “will”[edit source]

Would it be possible to change “will” on the main page to an older spelling such as “wvll” or “wole”? I would like your opinions on this. 16:45, 27 February 2021 (UTC)Reply

I think it’s a very good idea, but I haven’t found any info in the internet to verify that the forms wvll and wole were used. I found in wiktionary the form wille, is this what you meant? Also, you can sign a message by typing ~~~~. -Gifnk dlm 2020 (talk) 09:02, 28 February 2021 (UTC)Reply
I found several quotes of the usage of “wull” on the Middle English Dictionary by the University of Michigan. “We wull late in yow and youre”. 12:06, 3 March 2021 (UTC)Reply

IDK Vikipad (talk) 21:16, 14 August 2021 (UTC)Reply

Milestone - more than 200 articles[edit source]

I would like to announce that this test wiki now has more than 200 articles. -Gifnk dlm 2020 (talk) 18:40, 28 February 2021 (UTC)Reply

Btw, the main page says there are 202 pages, while the Category says there are 198 pages. Why do they say different things, and who to believe? Thanks in advance, -Gifnk dlm 2020 (talk) 19:30, 28 February 2021 (UTC)Reply

@Gifnk dlm 2020:: Test. --OWTB (talk) 12:08, 18 March 2021 (UTC)Reply

Roman or Arabic numbers?[edit source]

@1234qwer1234qwer4, The Hypnotizer, NASAPeepo, Nailuj29, Эарендил, CrazyPencilDawg, Jan Myšák:, pinging all the users who contributed in March. Btw, now you can use the ping template in this test wiki without it showing an error by typing subst:ping. Back to topic, do you think that we should use Roman numbers like people in Medieval times did or use more conviennent Arabic numbers? You can see a page with Arabic numbers [[|Wp/enm/Montgomery, Alabama|here]] and one with Roman numbers [[|Wp/enm/Austin, Texas|here]]. I personally think Roman numbers can be used from time to time for small numbers only but I would love to hear other opinions as well. -Gifnk dlm 2020 (talk) 14:11, 21 March 2021 (UTC)Reply

I pinged much more users, but fro some reason only some of them show up. -Gifnk dlm 2020 (talk) 14:12, 21 March 2021 (UTC)Reply
@Gifnk dlm 2020 I added support for up to 20 users in the Template:subst:ping, though a module might be the better solution in the long term. 1234qwer1234qwer4 (talk) 14:22, 21 March 2021 (UTC)Reply
Thank you very much! -Gifnk dlm 2020 (talk) 15:27, 21 March 2021 (UTC)Reply
Anyways, back to topic. Do you think we should use Roman numbers or Arabic numbers? -Gifnk dlm 2020 (talk) 11:12, 22 March 2021 (UTC)Reply
I've used the Arabic numerals for simplicity, but now that I think about it, I guess whatever was used by Middle English speakers back in the day should be used. However, as I was writing this, I did a quick Google search, and I just found out that this is easier said than done, because apparently they used Roman numerals, but there were some rare instances of Arabic numerals in the 15th century. I guess Roman numerals should be used since their Middle English use was more common, but I also have some bias towards Arabic numerals because of their simplicity. Nevertheless, I will use Roman numerals in this test wiki from now on, no matter how much pain it will cause me. NASAPeepo (talk) 17:16, 23 March 2021 (UTC)Reply
A problem that I see is that for mathematical articles, we would still need to use Arabic numerals: Representing fractions, negative numbers, and even indices with Roman numerals is awkward. 1234qwer1234qwer4 (talk) 17:45, 23 March 2021 (UTC)Reply
@NASAPeepo:, to begin, I would like to say that I admire your willingness to write in this test wiki in a way that is as similar as possible to what was common during medieval times. I did a bit research myself, and in w:Arabic numerals. I think that in mathematical articles we can maybe still tolerate Arabic numerals. It’s written that they became “widely known” in Britain in the 15th century, however there is even early evidence of use of those numerals. Middle English was spoken between the 12th to 15th century so using Roman numerals makes sense. @1234qwer1234qwer4:, it’s important to remember that Middle English had many dialects and many different spellings, and I think that this wiki should reflect that. That’s why I use different spellings in different articles- and sometimes even in the same article. Maybe this kind of diversity can apply also to numerals. However, it is possible to write fractions in Roman numbers - despite the fact that it is truly awkward as 1234qwer1234qwer4 noted, it’s still possible. Middle English Wikipedia should in my opinion represent how people in medieval spoke and wrote - not what is easier - that’s why I copy paste those thorns. I think we can use this discussion to create an official policy that new users in the future will be able to follow. We can also use the policy page as a tutorial to teach people Roman numerals.
TL;DR I think we should use Roman numerals but I recognize that there are valid reasons to use Arabic numerals so I would love to here other opinions as well. -Gifnk dlm 2020 (talk) 18:12, 23 March 2021 (UTC)Reply
So in the article I started on the state of Michigan, would it still be appropiate to depict the state's population in the 2010 census as "9,883,640" as opposed to "MMMDCCXXIV"?NASAPeepo (talk) 19:45, 23 March 2021 (UTC)Reply
@NASAPeepo:, that’s exactly the point of the discussion. I think that we have reached consensus that small number should be written using Roman Numerals. Also I see that you started replacing Arabic numerals with Roman ones in some articles, so thank you very much! About large numbers like populations, years, and ares - short answer is idk. Long answer is that I can understand both positions - the first one saying that in Middle English Wikipedia we should strive to write as similar as possible to how people wrote in medieval times and limit ourselves only to a Roman Numbers even for very large numbers and fractions. The second opinion is that we should use Arabic numbers for large numbers because they are much simpler. After this discussion, I’m leaning towards the first option but since Arabic numbers became accepted in Britain during the time when Middle English was still spoken maybe we can try to write such large numbers both by Arabic numerals and by Roman numerals? Just a suggestion. If not that we must create a page Wikipaedia:Use Roman numerals to teach people since the majority of people only know I, V, and X. Also it would be an extra hassle for new users who want to join Middle English Wikipedia. But it would make the text in this wiki more similar to how people in Medieval times would have written it. I would accept both options - we should decide which one is best by discussing and reaching consensus. Btw, I will greatly appreciate it if you ping me in your reply (type {{subst:ping|Example}} -Gifnk dlm 2020 (talk) 21:48, 23 March 2021 (UTC)Reply
@Gifnk dlm 2020: You are welcome! By the way, I have seen years represented by Roman numerals before, at least in modern English. Mostly in the end credits of TV shows and movies, so I have began using them for years. As for ordinals, I wrote out "seventeneþ century" on the Alaska page since I'm not entirely sure how Roman numeral ordinals work. Would it be something like "XVIIeþ century", "XVIIþ century", perhaps even simply "XVII century"? NASAPeepo (talk) 22:55, 23 March 2021 (UTC)Reply
@NASAPeepo:, I researched this a bit, and I found this discussion. Their point makes sense - just like you write Napoleon III and say it Napoleon the third, it makes sense to write XVII century. About years, I think we should also use Roman numerals just create a page to teach new users that might not know them. -Gifnk dlm 2020 (talk) 09:11, 24 March 2021 (UTC)Reply
Another important thing to discuss is articles about area codes (for phone numbers). Should they be written in Roman or Arabic numerals? -Gifnk dlm 2020 (talk) 09:34, 24 March 2021 (UTC)Reply
I left a comment at Old English Wikipedia inviting people to join this discussion. I find it interesting that they chose to use Arabic numerals despite the fact that they were introducing after Old English evolved into Middle English (they probably never thought about this and used the, out of instinct like we all did but I still find it interesting). -Gifnk dlm 2020 (talk) 11:22, 24 March 2021 (UTC)Reply
@NASAPeepo "MMMDCCXXIV" is "3724", not sure where you got that from. "9,883,640" would be something like "I̿X̿D̅C̅C̅C̅L̅X̅X̅X̅MMMDCXL" or "I̿X̿D̅C̅C̅C̅L̅X̅X̅X̅I̅I̅I̅DCXL". 1234qwer1234qwer4 (talk) 12:45, 24 March 2021 (UTC)Reply
@1234qwer1234qwer4:, Can you explain how you got I̿X̿D̅C̅C̅C̅L̅X̅X̅X̅I̅I̅I̅DCXL? According to this chart that I found, it should be M̄M̄M̄M̄M̄M̄M̄M̄M̄D̄C̄C̄C̄L̄X̄X̄X̄MMMDCXL. Correct me if I’m wrong. I suggest we create a template that automatically converts Arabic numerals to Roman ones as that will save a ton of human errror. -Gifnk dlm 2020 (talk) 13:12, 24 March 2021 (UTC)Reply
Maybe. I'm not sure writing nine Ms in a row makes that much sense. Possibly also M̅X̿D̅C̅C̅C̅L̅X̅X̅X̅I̅I̅I̅DCXL. 1234qwer1234qwer4 (talk) 13:16, 24 March 2021 (UTC)Reply
@1234qwer1234qwer4:, What do the 2 lines above the X mean? Also, if there’s a letter that means 10 million it’s probably better to write M̅ and then that letter. -Gifnk dlm 2020 (talk) 13:32, 24 March 2021 (UTC)Reply
The two lines are just like a line above another. 1234qwer1234qwer4 (talk) 13:34, 24 March 2021 (UTC)Reply
I see thank you very much! Is I̿X̿ the accepted way to write 9 million? Is it allowed to add the lines above a combination of letters or only above one letter? I think M̅X̿D̅C̅C̅C̅L̅X̅X̅X̅I̅I̅I̅DCXL (like you wrote above) makes more sense. Also, I think it would be better if we made a template that converts numbers to aRoman numerals that way if in the future we decide to use another convention, we will only need to change the template and not all the articles. -Gifnk dlm 2020 (talk) 13:40, 24 March 2021 (UTC)Reply
This would probably require a module, and unfortunately, I don't know any Lua. 1234qwer1234qwer4 (talk) 13:42, 24 March 2021 (UTC)Reply
@1234qwer1234qwer4:, such template exists in English Wikipedia, so we can request to import it (maybe ping an admin in this chat). I tested it in w:User:Gifnk dlm 2020/sandbox but the problem is that it doesn’t work for numbers larger than 4999999. I also don’t know lua, for some reason I thought it would be written in python which I know a bit of but since it’s lua it will be more challenging. Maybe we can ping the users who created w:Module:Roman and ask them if they can maybe increase the limit? From what I see, it knows to add lines above letters -14:07, 24 March 2021 (UTC) Template:Wp/enm/unsigned
@Mr. Stradivarius, Andy M. Wang, Redrose64, Jackmcbarn, Waggers, Xaosflux: pinging all the users that edited w:module:Roman (I hope this isn’t spam). Hi, here I’m Middle English Wikipedia we decided to use Roman numerals instead of Arabic numerals and in order to avoid human mistakes we started exploring the idea of using a template that will automatically convert numbers to Roman numerals. I decided to check if such template exists in English Wikipedia and I found w:Template:Roman to be very useful. However, we run into a problem - this template doesn’t support numbers larger than 4999999 so I was wandering: why such an arbitrary limitation? 4999999 isn’t a power of two and 4 byte integer variables can store numbers up to 4,294,967,295. Also, you are aware that adding lines above a number is the same that multiplying it by 1000, and btw two lines = multiplying by a million so I don’t see what’s the problem to do at least till 800 million. Thanks in advance, and I really hope this isn’t spam. -Gifnk dlm 2020 (talk) 16:02, 24 March 2021 (UTC)Reply
@Gifnk dlm 2020: I suspect it is because there was no agreement on how to represent 5 million or higher. w:en:Roman_numerals#Large_numbers suggests there is not a "standard". Xaosflux (talk) 16:07, 24 March 2021 (UTC)Reply
@Xaosflux:, thank you very much for the reply! It’s written that both systems were in simultaneous use so here is my suggestion: add an additional parameter that will decide which syste to use. It will look like that: {{Roman|9883640|N/A|Vinculum}} or {{Roman|9883640|N/A|Apostrophus}}. However, if this is too much work I honestly think that Vinculum is better. However, my suggestion will solve the problem that you write above. Thanks in advance, -Gifnk dlm 2020 (talk) 16:21, 24 March 2021 (UTC)Reply
@Xaosflux:, I reviewed the code in w:Module:Roman and I honestly don’t see the problem. You can multiply by a million by adding two lines above. Doesn’t the function you use support adding two lines (by running this function twice). If not, isn’t there a possibility to create a function that adds two lines? If not, then isn’t it possible to just copy paste the Unicode characters to the code. I think it’s possible to ignore the comment directly above this because you use Vinculum for smaller numbers. -Gifnk dlm 2020 (talk) 19:47, 24 March 2021 (UTC)Reply
If you want to propose a change to the module an the English Wikipedia, then open an edit request on its talk page. I'm not sure how that is going to help you on any other project, where you can simply update the project local module to whatever it is you need. As far as your core issue, how to write roman numbers on a wiki that is in the roman language -- well why not just use the natural characters, they are available in unicode. On other projects that don't use arabic they just use their native integer symbols, not wrap them in some template (e.g. pswiki has an article on w:ps:۳ not on "3", so wouldn't your article be on "III"? Xaosflux (talk) 21:25, 24 March 2021 (UTC)Reply
@Xaosflux:, thank you very much for your reply! After thinking about it, I think it will be easier to create a page teaching people Roman Numbers than to use a template. The link you listed doesn’t have vinculums (the line above the letters) that was used to indicate multiplication by 1,000. @NASAPeepo, 1234qwer1234qwer4: what do you think about the creation of Wp/enm/Wikipaedia:Use Roman numerals that will also include a tutorial and possibly also a quiz? Also, how do you type the letters with the 2 lines above? -Gifnk dlm 2020 (talk) 21:43, 24 March 2021 (UTC)Reply
User:Gifnk dlm 2020 you can use unicode and combining characters, such as the unicode Ⅿ̅ which MAY appear correctly depending on your browser. Some of this may depend on how you want your source to be stored. Xaosflux (talk) 22:06, 24 March 2021 (UTC)Reply
I suggest we not use the Unicode "Roman numeral" characters. As you said, it "MAY appear correctly", while using regular Latin letters will work for everyone. Or is there a problem with that I'm not seeing? 1234qwer1234qwer4 (talk) 09:07, 25 March 2021 (UTC)Reply
@Xaosflux: thank you very much! @1234qwer1234qwer4: yeah it’s a problem but if we want to write large numbers we kinda need to use Unicode characters (unless you know another way of typing letters with those lines above I’m open for suggestions). -Gifnk dlm 2020 (talk) 09:22, 25 March 2021 (UTC)Reply
A large factor in this is likely going to be how you want this to work for editors / how you want the source stored. Keep in mind your readers as well of course. Overline is going to be hard, it is likely a very bad idea to have every single number on your project wrapped in a template and there is not a single unicode character for roman numberals with overline (in my example above I used a combining unicode). CSS hacks to put overlines should certainly not be used for accessibility reasons. There are lots of ways to go about this, and the long term direction is going to depend on what your use cases need to be. Xaosflux (talk) 10:18, 25 March 2021 (UTC)Reply
@Xaosflux:, thank you very much! The way I use to type characters that don’t appear on my iPads keyboard (like thorns - the Middle English alternative for th) is by copying and pasting from a page where someone else used it. That’s also how I typed lettes with overlines in this discussion (I also copied from w:Macron (diacritics) Maybe we will offer a tutorial page where users will be able to copy and paste characters from? Just a suggestion. -Gifnk dlm 2020 (talk) 11:26, 25 March 2021 (UTC)Reply
Various editing bars are available your interface could use as well, (look for an "insert" menu in the editing window - and these can be customized - a project could get an insert window of these number symbols. Xaosflux (talk) 13:09, 25 March 2021 (UTC)Reply
@Xaosflux:, thank you very much! I tried your advice in Wp/enm/Austin, Texas. Can you check did I do it properly? Also, the letters with the over line appear in a different font than the letters without. How to fix this? Thanks in advance, -Gifnk dlm 2020 (talk) 13:44, 25 March 2021 (UTC)Reply
Well, you made some of them using math markup, and some are just basic latin letters. The math markup is rendering for me as a picture - so this all goes back to the question I was asking before, how do you want your information to actually be stored, and how do you want your readers to be able to access it? The semantic model can be very important if your goal is to make information accessible to the most number of people; if your priamry goal is visual presentation to a limited audience (for example humans reading your page visually with modern browsers) you can go a different direction. Xaosflux (talk) 13:58, 25 March 2021 (UTC)Reply
@Xaosflux:, I see. Also for me it renders as an image. I would like this to be accessible to as many people as possible. Will typing C̄M̄L̄X̄X̄V̄MMM instead of that solve the problem? Btw, I replaced ĪĪĪ with MMM since there is a Roman numeral for 1,000 no point multiplying 1 by 1000. Also, I see that you don’t ping me in your replies. Here we created Template:subst:ping. Will making Template:subst:ping as a redirect page solve the problem? Thanks in advance, -Gifnk dlm 2020 (talk) 14:30, 25 March 2021 (UTC)Reply
@Xaosflux, NASAPeepo, 1234qwer1234qwer4:, I created a policy page asking people to use Roman numerals. It can be seen at Wp/enm/Wikipaedia:Use Roman numerals. Feel free to improve it. -Gifnk dlm 2020 (talk) 13:22, 26 March 2021 (UTC)Reply

@1234qwer1234qwer4: this may sound random, but can you type a letter v with 2 lines above here? I want to write a page about Arizona, and it’s population is 7,278,717 so I will need a 5 with two lines above (5 million) in order to type this number. Thanks in advance, -Gifnk dlm 2020 (talk) 18:40, 3 April 2021 (UTC)Reply

@NASAPeepo, 1234qwer1234qwer4:, btw the message that I posted in Old English Wikipedia was archived because it’s more than 30 days old. I posted a message in Latin Wikipedia which is much more active. It’s just a message informing that we decided to use Roman numerals suggesting them to also think in that discussion and inviting them to help replace Arabic numerals with Roman ones in this wiki. -Gifnk dlm 2020 (talk) 20:29, 9 April 2021 (UTC)Reply
Btw, on our main page we list the number of articles using Arabic numerals so I think we should still request to import the template that converts numbers to Roman numerals and wrap this number with this template in Template:Wp/enm/NUMBEROFARTICLES. By the day we get to 5 million articles I’m sure someone will increase the max number. I don’t think we will be able to change the numbers in the categories to Roman numerals though. -Gifnk dlm 2020 (talk) 20:39, 9 April 2021 (UTC)Reply
@Xbspiro:, pinging an importer. Can you please import w:Template:Roman so that we can change the number of articles in the main page to Roman Numerals? -Gifnk dlm 2020 (talk) 14:56, 11 April 2021 (UTC)Reply
@Gifnk dlm 2020: - unfortunately, I am not familiar with the modules which seem to be required to make the current version work. Would this version from 2013 be good enough for you?
Btw, Incubator has a page for handling these requests - if that version would not suffice, I will make a note there, so that more experienced importers could take a look at it. - Xbspiro (talk) 05:50, 13 April 2021 (UTC)Reply
@Xbspiro:, thank you very much! I have looked a bit on the version you suggested, and it looks like it does nonsense with numbers that require a line above (a line above = multiplication by 1,000). Is this just because it’s loading newer revisions and in this test wiki will it be ok? Thanks in advance, -Gifnk dlm 2020 (talk) 09:05, 13 April 2021 (UTC)Reply
@Gifnk dlm 2020:, I have copy-pasted the old version into w:Template:Template Sandbox. Try to invoke it with numbers you seek to display, and we will see if it works. In the meantime I have requested an undeletion which is connected to this version (although it might not be necessary). w:Template:Overline would be imported alongside this one, as it is a dependency. - Xbspiro (talk) 09:56, 13 April 2021 (UTC)Reply
@Xbspiro:, thank you very much! I have tested w:Template:Overline in my sandbox and it seems to be working fine. I didn’t quiet understand how the template sandbox works though. How do I invoke it with different numbers? Thanks in advance, -Gifnk dlm 2020 (talk) 10:27, 13 April 2021 (UTC)Reply
@Gifnk dlm 2020:, check out w:Wikipedia:Sandbox (diff). Change the numbers to your liking and hit preview or save. - Xbspiro (talk) 10:37, 13 April 2021 (UTC)Reply
Well, you did just that in your sandbox. - Xbspiro (talk) 10:40, 13 April 2021 (UTC)Reply
@Xbspiro:, thank you very much! This template works! I think it will work perfectly with the current small number of articles but the problem is when we get to over 1,000 articles. [[|Wp/grc|Ancient Greek Wikipedia]] has over 1,000 articles and if we check template:Wp/grc/NUMBEROFARTICLES, we will see that it shows the number with a comma, and this template doesn’t support numbers with commas. Is there any way around this? Thanks in advance, -Gifnk dlm 2020 (talk) 10:56, 13 April 2021 (UTC)Reply
You mean like V̿? Sorry for the very delayed response; I was inactive on Incubator. 1234qwer1234qwer4 (talk) 17:34, 1 May 2021 (UTC)Reply
@1234qwer1234qwer4:, yes exactly. Thank you very much! -Gifnk dlm 2020 (talk) 17:37, 1 May 2021 (UTC)Reply

>> @Gifnk dlm 2020:, based on w:Help:Magic words#Metadata, one can request a number without commas by using the R switch: [[Special:Prefixindex/Wp/grc|{{PAGESINCATEGORY:Wp/grc|R}}]] which results in 2041. - Xbspiro (talk) 11:02, 13 April 2021 (UTC)Reply

@Xbspiro:, thank you very much! I tested this in my sandbox and it works perfectly well with w:Template:Roman. -Gifnk dlm 2020 (talk) 11:21, 13 April 2021 (UTC)Reply
@Gifnk dlm 2020:, done, but keep in mind that it is not the module-based version. Good luck! - Xbspiro (talk) 12:22, 13 April 2021 (UTC)Reply
@Xbspiro:, Thank you very much! I tried to use it in template:Wp/enm/NUMBEROFARTICLES where it seems to work propelled but when I check in Wp/enm/Mayne Page, it still shows up as Arabic numerals. I tried to edit the page but it still doesn’t work. Thanks in a advance, -Gifnk dlm 2020 (talk) 12:28, 13 April 2021 (UTC)Reply
@Gifnk dlm 2020:, Template:Wp/enm/Numberofarticles is used on the MP, not Template:Wp/enm/NUMBEROFARTICLES. Hopefully it will work from now on. (Please don't thank again. :) ) - Xbspiro (talk) 12:41, 13 April 2021 (UTC)Reply

Middle English Translator[edit source]

Hi @Bywok:, I saw your translator, and I think that it will be very beneficial for Middle English Wikipedia. Also, I saw that it converts th to lowcase thorns properly but Th stays Th. I have never created a lingojam so maybe what I’m telling won’t be of much use but is there an option to convert Th to capital thorns? Also I think that it’s a shame that you advertised it just in your user page which I found just after browsing the list of users who speak Middle English. If I were you I would open a discussion here as well. -Gifnk dlm 2020 (talk) 17:35, 1 May 2021 (UTC)Reply

Btw, I prefer to discuss stuff related to Middle English Wikipedia here so that other users will be able to also join the discussion and express their opinions about this. -Gifnk dlm 2020 (talk) 17:46, 1 May 2021 (UTC)Reply
Hey @Gifnk dlm 2020:, thank you for mentioning me about this! The reason that "Th" stays "Th" is because for whatever reason Lingojam doesn't seem to have case sensitivity. The LingoJam is nowhere near finished by any means and more things will be added to it. As for the advertising, I'll remove it so that others can discuss it here. Thanks for reaching out to me about this! Also there is a suggestion box below the translator so you can also put your suggestions there as well. Thank you! Bywok (talk) 01:40, 3 May 2021 (UTC)Reply
Also I only have basic knowledge of Middle English and am currently still trying to learn it. Sorry, I didn't know you could change it until I changed the number on my page. It's been updated. That was also why I was making the translator, as a way to teach myself the language rules of Middle English. Bywok (talk) 01:44, 3 May 2021 (UTC)Reply
@Bywok:, thank you very much for replying! I also have a basic knowledge of Middle English and I joined this wiki as a way to improve it. I recommend using this online Middle English dictionary because it also has quotations so you can check if you are using the word correctly. If you are really serious about it, you can borrow a book in the archive library about Middle English. -Gifnk dlm 2020 (talk) 12:48, 3 May 2021 (UTC)Reply
Another source I recommend you use is Wikitionary. You can look in the etymology section of the word that you are checking and see what this word was in Middle English. For example the word book in Middle English was booke, book, and bok (there was a wide variety of dialects). In this case I usually prefer to avoid using the one that is exactly what is used in Modern English in order to make Middle English Wikipedia more unique. But if lingojam supports randomness I think this would be the best option. -Gifnk dlm 2020 (talk) 14:25, 3 May 2021 (UTC)Reply
Please no. No offence, but this is not a very good idea. It just results in modern English spelt funny, which isn't exactly the same as middle English, and is a bad thing to base the project on in my opinion. The good pages (like hare) are clearly not composed in modern English, there's some weird sentence constructions going on that you have to think about. The bad pages are just obviously modern English text rendered into a medieval spelling.2407:7000:89D7:9B81:B0BA:D74:F534:5439
Just to make sure I understand your message so that we can discuss it’s properly. Do you mean not to use a Middle English translator because it will not translate to Middle English, only to Modern English spelled funny? Or do you mean not to use the Middle English dictionary that I proposed? Thanks in advance, -Gifnk dlm 2020 (talk) 15:24, 4 May 2021 (UTC)Reply

BTW, @Bywok:, some time ago @Laʒamon Æft-iboren: linked to a really good website about Early Middle English Grammar (linked here. I’m just curious to know if this can be implemented in your translator. One notable thing is that instead of adding the word “to” in order to mark infinitive verbs, you add -en. So to sing should be singen. The only challenge I see with this is that if you write about someone going to say London you don’t want to write going Londonen. I’m wondering, is there a way in lingojam to tell which word is a verb and which isn’t? If no than it’s going to be more challenging.... -Gifnk dlm 2020 (talk) 19:02, 5 July 2021 (UTC)Reply

New request in meta[edit source]

@Laʒamon Æft-iboren, The Hypnotizer, Bywok, 1234qwer1234qwer4, CanadianToast, PolarWafflez, LittleWhole: Pinging recent and/or active contributors. There’s a new request to open a new Middle English Wikipedia as enm.wikipedia.org. Please feel free to add more arguments to why Middle English Wikipedia should be created and also any contributions to this wiki (especially now) are welcome and will be appropriated. -Gifnk dlm 2020 (talk) 09:05, 5 May 2021 (UTC)Reply

Thank you for the ping. Will do. LittleWhole (talk) 09:33, 5 May 2021 (UTC)Reply
Thanks for pinging me. CanadianToast (talk) 23:20, 5 May 2021 (UTC)Reply

Sandbox[edit source]

Hi @MF-Warburg:, how to create a sandbox for Middle English Wikipedia in order that users will be able to do test, edits play around with templates, etc? Thanks in advance, -Gifnk dlm 2020 (talk) 16:03, 10 May 2021 (UTC)Reply

In addition, Wp/enm should be removed from the category for open but rejected wikis. I would do it myself but I’m not sure to which category it should be added to. -Gifnk dlm 2020 (talk) 09:00, 11 May 2021 (UTC)Reply
A sandbox is just a normal page that states it can be edited for testing purposes. Users can use I:Sandbox or you can create an own one. --MF-W {a, b} 01:16, 12 May 2021 (UTC)Reply
@MF-Warburg: thank you very much! I have checked out Incubator:Sandbox, and I I create Wp/enm/Wikipaedia:Sandbox and type there:
{{/Please do not edit this line}}
Will it work properly or will it give an error as an unprefixed template? -Gifnk dlm 2020 (talk) 08:30, 12 May 2021 (UTC)Reply
Never mind I managed. Thank you very much! But why is the request for deleting this wiki still open if there’s a request in meta? Also, shouldn’t Wp/enm be removed from the category for open but rejects wikis? -Gifnk dlm 2020 (talk) 12:07, 12 May 2021 (UTC)Reply

Fourth request rejected ........ too soon[edit source]

@LittleWhole, DTL1234, MF-Warburg, 1234qwer1234qwer4, Atavoidturk, Bywok, CanadianToast: pinging all the users who contributed to this with in May. The fourth request for Middle English Wikipedia has recently been rejected - only two weeks after it was created. However, when the discussion was open I tried to ask if it’s possible by any chance that the Wikimedia Foundation will contact Middle English experts that will review our work, correct us if we have many mistakes, and maybe some of them will even stay and become frequent editors. @Janwo: explained that it’s not the responsibility of Language Committee but rather of the community making the request so I would love to hear your opinions about this. Janwo also told that if we manage to get an expert to become an active member, this might make things look a little bit brighter. Also, I think that we should discuss our next steps after the fourth request was rejected - do we open a fifth one, do we contact experts and only open a new request when there’s much more content and the content is actually reviewed by experts, do we both contact experts and open a fifth request, or do we just continue expanding the wiki without any plans of posting a request in the foreseeable future? I would love to hear your opinions. -Gifnk dlm 2020 (talk) 21:32, 16 May 2021 (UTC)Reply

You surely misunderstood Janwo's comments. He was referring to the custom of Langcom verifying the content of test-wikipedias with an independent linguist aka "expert" before approving them, to make sure it's really the language. A language does not become more acceptable if many "experts" are contributing to it. --MF-W {a, b} 21:56, 16 May 2021 (UTC)Reply
Will this rejection reason also apply to Ancient Greek Wikipedia request IV? That seems somewhat under same situation, that rejected for 3 times, SIL's Language Type of that is Historical. --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 23:34, 16 May 2021 (UTC)Reply
@Gifnk dlm 2020 So as explained by the rejection reason, new Wikipedias are not allowed just if you're using ancient and/or historical languages, that's why I would say move to Incubator Plus would be better than still stucking here, since by this way you will quickly have a wiki in this language, although its domain won't be "enm.wikipedia.org". Questions like "do we need 5th request", "do we contact experts"... would be not important since it's defined by babelstone that those languages aren't suitable for Wikimedia, at least for having Wikimedia wiki websites. It's not suitable to retain fathers here, so we do have other places to retain fathers. --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 14:10, 17 May 2021 (UTC)Reply
@Liuxinyu970226: from my understanding incubator plus works with the same prefix system as incubator so this won’t be different, however a lot will be lost. For one, there will be no way to get a subdomain even if the policy changes. From my understanding, new Wikipedias in ancient languages are not allowed because they think that there are not enough people interested in this - and Middle English Wikipedia proves that there are. Also from my understanding artificial languages are allowed if there are enough people interested and editing. There’s no any reason to assume that someone will search for information in Lojban however Lojban is still eligible for wikis. Another thing that will be lost is the ability to use interwiki links. I heard there was a proposal to add the ability to add interwiki links to test wikis using wikidata. This obviously won’t extend to wikis in incubator plus. I suggest to continue expanding this test wiki and then use it as evidence that a test wiki in an ancient language can flourish and submit a request to change the policy. (BTW, @MF-Warburg:, if you actually read the discussion before rejecting the request, you would see that Janwo clearly said “ If, however, you can convince said experts to become active members of the project's community, thins might look a bit brighter.”) -Gifnk dlm 2020 (talk) 16:54, 17 May 2021 (UTC)Reply
@Gifnk dlm 2020 "For one, there will be no way to get a subdomain even if the policy changes." This is of course impossible, because as I said again and again, your language is not suitable for having Wikipedia, as it's *not suitable*, it has lost, is losing and will always lose potential umbrellas of such a "way"; answers of questions like your "and Middle English Wikipedia proves that there are" would be same IMHO; questions about artifical languages are different than ancient/historical/extinct languages since there could be possible by one-per-one judging, and there are having activities on Lojban as per their RecentChanges.
About Interwiki links, if you really think this is so important, you may request it at m:Talk:Interwiki map, and you even can encourage Miraheze's admins to consider installing mw:Extension:Wikibase Client, "use it as evidence that a test wiki in an ancient language can flourish and submit a request to change the policy." you can continue here, but it won't be such an "evidence" since the rule about barring ancient/historical/extinct languages for having Wikipedias are engraved on every Wikimedians' hearts, wasting times to "wait for experts and submit next Xth requests" are having no benefits even for you. Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 23:53, 17 May 2021 (UTC)Reply
@Liuxinyu970226: if you look in the recent changes of Middle English Wikipedia, you will see that it’s much more active than Lojban Wikipedia. Lojban Wikipedia had only 5 “edits” in the last 7 days and none of them were for actual content pages. Two of them were user renames so they don’t count as edits at all, one of them is an account creation, one of them is a MediaWiki Message Deliibery, and the only one that can be considered as an expansion is editing a template (which btw is important but not enough to say that it’s an active wiki). If you enter any request for a new project, you will clearly see the text “The community needs to develop an active test project; it must remain active until approval (automated statistics, recent changes). It is generally considered active if the analysis lists at least three active, not-grayed-out editors listed in the sections for the previous few months.” Based on this Middle English Wikipedia is an active wiki and I would like to submit a request to change this policy so that it will allow also ancient languages if there’s an interested community. -Gifnk dlm 2020 (talk) 11:30, 18 May 2021 (UTC)Reply
@Gifnk dlm 2020 All questions based on the activity levels, as per [2], are answered by MF-W: "There have been some discussions on the proposal - also some mails were sent to this list, but I discarded them as a list admin because they were just copies of people's comments from the Meta page without it being clear who was sending these mails - but nothing convincing was brought forth, it was rather derailed by pointing out "oh but there are so many contributors!!!". I closed the proposal accordingly." This clearly-than-god defined that activity isn't, i-s-n-(apostrophe)-t, a reason that a language proposal would be eligible.

As for a request for comment, these were tried by so many peoples like you, but all are failed: m:Meta_talk:Language_proposal_policy/Archives/2007#Latin_Wikipedia, m:Meta_talk:Language_proposal_policy/Archives/2008#Latin_Wikinews, m:Meta_talk:Language_proposal_policy/Archives/2009#Unfair_policy, m:Meta_talk:Language_proposal_policy/Archives/2010#Dead_languages_bundled_with_the_modern_equivalent?, m:Meta_talk:Language_proposal_policy/Archives/2012#Literary_languages, m:Talk:Language_proposal_policy#Austrian_German, m:Talk:Language_proposal_policy#Start_allowing_ancient_languages, m:Talk:Language_committee/2007#From_Talk:Requests_for_new_languages, m:Talk:Language_committee/2007#Technical_changes, m:Talk:Language_committee/2007#Regular_oversights, m:Talk:Language_committee/2007#Wikipedia_Korean_Hanja, m:Talk:Language_committee/2007#Ottoman_turkish (though, most of them are about [[|Wp/grc|Ancient Greek]] instead)

So in short: Get ready to say Good Bye from Wikimedia Incubator, here you won't translate your hopes to a domain. --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 06:57, 19 May 2021 (UTC)Reply

@1234qwer1234qwer4: because you are a very experienced editor and a contributor to Middle English Wikipedia I would love to know your thoughts about inviting experts that study Middle English to review this wiki, give feedback and maybe even become active contributors. Thanks in advance, -Gifnk dlm 2020 (talk) 18:05, 24 May 2021 (UTC)Reply
@1234qwer1234qwer4: you may have missed the ping. -Gifnk dlm 2020 (talk) 22:03, 28 May 2021 (UTC)Reply
Sorry. I mean, it will certainly help this wiki if experts actively contribute to it. The question is probably rather how to invite them. 1234qwer1234qwer4 (talk) 10:40, 31 May 2021 (UTC)Reply
@1234qwer1234qwer4: yeah that’s exactly the problem. I tried to contact experts back in January (see User talk:CanadianToast#About mistakes in Middle English) but they still haven’t returned. I think it would be more effective to send to many Middle English experts that way it increases that chances that at least a few of them will become active contributors. BTW, I found a list of Middle English Experts. We can try to contact them but we will have to formulate a good message first. -Gifnk dlm 2020 (talk) 12:30, 31 May 2021 (UTC)Reply
Correction: I contacted in Early February. -Gifnk dlm 2020 (talk) 12:31, 31 May 2021 (UTC)Reply
@1234qwer1234qwer4: BTW, I sent an email to all 62 (hope I haven’t missed anybody) people in the list above informing them about the existence of Middle English Wikipedia and inviting them to contribute. Let’s hope it doesn’t end up in their spam box. I will however continue searching for ways to contact experts at least until a few of them start contributing. -Gifnk dlm 2020 (talk) 11:25, 1 June 2021 (UTC)Reply
@1234qwer1234qwer4: Update: one of the people whom I emailed replied and told just that he would like to thank us that his students love Middle English Wikipedia and that it helped boost their enthusiasm. However, the emails didn’t seem to attract any new contributors. Unfortunately I couldn’t find any mailing lists other than the one above. Do you have ideas on any other ways we could contact experts? Thanks in advance, -Gifnk dlm 2020 (talk) 17:41, 6 June 2021 (UTC)Reply

Request for comment at Meta[edit source]

@LittleWhole, DTL1234, 1234qwer1234qwer4, Atavoidturk, Laʒamon Æft-iboren, OTOD tag, Bywok: pinging all users who contributed to Middle English Wikipedia in the month of May, I posted a request for comment at meta requesting that they start allowing wikis in ancient languages making it clear that I don’t expect Middle English Wikipedia to get a subdomain right away - only that it will have the opportunity to do so once it has a substantial amount of content. Please feel free to add more arguments if you think that I missed anything or just express your support in the discussion. -Gifnk dlm 2020 (talk) 08:36, 25 May 2021 (UTC)Reply

@PastelKos, Marco Choi 04, Θεπ, MysteriousAuthor, Minorax, WorkingCube, Haoreima: pinging all users who contributed to Ancient Greek Wikipedia in the months of April and May. This isn’t about Middle English Wikipedia - it’s about the future of all wikis in Ancient languages. BTW, I forgot to leave a link😅. Here it is: Requests for comment/Start allowing ancient languages -Gifnk dlm 2020 (talk) 09:05, 25 May 2021 (UTC)Reply
Hi, which ancient languages allowed now? -- 10:07, 25 May 2021 (UTC)Reply
Currently no ancient languages are allowed. If you enter the fourth request you will see that “New Wikipedias in ancient or historical languages are not allowed by the Language Proposal Policy”. I posted this request for comment in order to try an change this policy. If you support this initiative, please add a comment in the discussion section explaining why you support it with a few arguments. I will really appreciate it if you do. Also it’s highly desirable that you create an account as it will make communicating a whole lot easier. It’s easier to remember a user name than an I.P. address and it’s possible to ping users using {{subst:ping|User}} or {{ping}} outside of this test wiki. -Gifnk dlm 2020 (talk) 10:40, 25 May 2021 (UTC)Reply
BTW, I left a comment about this request in Latin Wikipedia and in Classical Chinese Wikipedia. I might also inform about this in Old English Wikipedia and in Old Church Slavonic Wikipedia. -Gifnk dlm 2020 (talk) 12:03, 25 May 2021 (UTC)Reply

Added an option to create pages through the main page[edit source]

@LittleWhole, DTL1234, Nevergonnagiveyou, MF-Warburg, Liuxinyu970226, 1234qwer1234qwer4, Laʒamon Æft-iboren: pinging all users who contributed during the months of May and June. Inspired by Wp/grc/Κυρία Δέλτος, I added the option to create new pages through the main page. Feel free to use it. Just please don’t remove the prefix Wp/enm. -Gifnk dlm 2020 (talk) 13:06, 13 June 2021 (UTC)Reply

Can You Add middle english wikitionary?[edit source]

Its possible request it! Template:Wp/enm/Unsigned

@ from my understanding it would be simply rejected because the current policies don’t allow new wikis in ancient languages. I have submitted a request to change this policy. It can be found here. You might want to check it out. Also, you can sign messages by typing ~~~~ at the end of your message. It’s highly desirable that you create an account as it will make collaboration a lot easier. -Gifnk dlm 2020 (talk) 13:58, 19 July 2021 (UTC)Reply
BTW, @MF-Warburg: can you please create Template:Wp/enm/Unsigned? Thanks in advance, -Gifnk dlm 2020 (talk) 13:59, 19 July 2021 (UTC)Reply
Can you not? It should not be blocked. --MF-W {a, b} 14:05, 19 July 2021 (UTC)Reply
@MF-Warburg: never mind. I did this. It’s much easier than I initially thought it would be. -Gifnk dlm 2020 (talk) 16:55, 20 July 2021 (UTC)Reply

Improved Middle English alphabet[edit source]

AÁBCDEÉFGHIÍJKLMNOÓPQRSTUÚVWXYÝZÞÆÐ (uppercase) aábcdeéfghiíjklmnoópqrstuúvwxyýzþæð (lowercase) Template:Wp/enm/Unsigned

@Laʒamon Æft-iboren: thoughts? -Gifnk dlm 2020 (talk) 12:49, 25 July 2021 (UTC)Reply
@Gifnk dlm 2020: It's O.K. On the rare occasions Middle English scribes did mark vowel length with diacritics, it was with the acute accent used here, not the macron, so I've no objections to that. I would add yogh (Ȝȝ) and wynn (Ƿƿ), though, and also long s (ſ). -Laʒamon Æft-iboren (talk) 13:17, 10 October 2021 (UTC)Reply
@Laʒamon Æft-iboren:, ok I understand. Thank you very much! Do you think it should be corrected in pages like Wp/enm/Rēad-only memory, Wp/enm/Gāmeboy, and Wp/enm/Gāmeboy color (can be done using Special:MovePage. -Gifnk dlm 2020 If only Middle English Wikipedia could be saved(talk) 13:26, 10 October 2021 (UTC)Reply

Haha I forgot ogoneks (Ąą, [ag or og] like wąn (want) Ęę [eg] like Winnipę (Winnipeg) lol), Śś and Ćć [s’] like Ueterśen, [c’] like synć (since) Template:Wp/enm/Unsigned

football[edit source]

will Japan win the Euro? Vikipad (talk) 21:45, 27 July 2021 (UTC)Reply

@Vikipad: lol. But please don’t spam this page. Use it in the future only for things related to Middle English Wikipedia. Thanks, -Gifnk dlm 2020 (talk) 21:47, 27 July 2021 (UTC)Reply

OK, I got you Vikipad (talk) 21:05, 14 August 2021 (UTC)Reply

Middle English Wikipedia Welcoming bot[edit source]

When I joined the incubator, I got a message from a welcoming bot in my talk page. I want to know if this can be done with Middle English Wikipedia to new editors. That will get links to additional resources straight in their talk page. Vikipad (talk) 22:01, 27 July 2021 (UTC)Reply

@Vikipad: I think this is a very good idea! -Gifnk dlm 2020 (talk) 22:05, 27 July 2021 (UTC)Reply
@1234qwer1234qwer4, MF-Warburg: do you think that it’s doable? -Gifnk dlm 2020 (talk) 22:06, 27 July 2021 (UTC)Reply
It would definitely be harder than a generic welcoming bot, since it would need to determine which wiki was edited as well. 1234qwer1234qwer4 (talk) 12:12, 28 July 2021 (UTC)Reply
@1234qwer1234qwer4: what do you mean? I imagine a bot that would monitor changes in Middle English Wikipedia which is possible as is evident by All pages in test wiki, and if this is the first edit by this user in this test wiki (check this page) then it will send a message. -Gifnk dlm 2020 (talk) 13:26, 28 July 2021 (UTC)Reply

what a wonderful discussion! Vikipad (talk) 21:14, 14 August 2021 (UTC)Reply

I made the Middle English version of an viral Wikipedia article[edit source]

Thats the article: Cock and ball torture Template:Wp/enm/Unsigned

@, thanks for your contributions! It’s highly desirable that you create an account and edit using it as it makes collaboration a lot easier. However, regardless of weather you create an account or not, please remember to sign your comments by typing ~~~~ at the end of your message. Thanks in advance, -Gifnk dlm 2020 (talk) 17:05, 3 August 2021 (UTC)Reply

Very big update[edit source]

Held an very big update in main page Instead of S, retyped to long S -Template:Wp/enm/Unsigned

@Laʒamon Æft-iboren: thank you very much! -Gifnk dlm 2020 (talk) 11:28, 12 August 2021 (UTC)Reply

Psychometry[edit source]

my friends talk about it. Do u know what is it? Vikipad (talk) 21:05, 14 August 2021 (UTC)Reply

@Vikipad: please don’t spam the talk page. It’s an exam in Israel You can read about it in Hebrew Wikipedia or in English Wikipedia. -Gifnk dlm 2020 (talk) 21:20, 14 August 2021 (UTC)Reply

@Vikipad:, how is this related to Middle English Wikipedia? -C64 is the best computer (talk) 17:36, 10 October 2021 (UTC)Reply

A question about notability[edit source]

@1234qwer1234qwer4, CanadianToast, JustinCB, Qmwne235, Gray Porpoise, Laʒamon Æft-iboren, Cbrown1023:, @Varlaam, LittleWhole, S. Roelants, PolarWafflez, Sgman1991, The Hypnotizer, DTL1234:, @Artoria2e5, Kimberley-nia Bot, X Parasite~incubatorwiki, Whaales, AurelianusAmbrose, NASAPeepo, Zarzagoa:, @Nevergonnagiveyou, GoodClover, DiuPater, Ursulageorges, Malhonen, ChimNung, CommonsDelinker:, @Xaosflux, Krencko, Heremaecg, MerlIwBo, Chris.Taub.M.D., Underfell Flowey, Guillermo2149:, @Sub to pewdipi, Doogdoggo1234, Schwei2, ABAlphaBeta, Timichal, Potvisgg, Anton Kazmyarchuk:, @TungstenPoet1, Bouymanbob, Catfish Enthusiast, Murchison-Eye, CaptainGastronomicon, Wiki13, Hasley:, @Wikitiki89, SolsticeComesAndGoes, InternetArchiveBot, JonsterMonster, James Johnson, JamesR1701E, Эарендил:, @Atavoidturk, WZibell, AzaToth, Nailuj29, StevenJ81, Ferien, Stardsen:, @Markus included, Sfenj, A FROGGE, Newbiepedian, Mssetiadi, Mr. Stradivarius, Xnet1234:, @Redux, Savh, Snood1205, Szczecinolog, Therealpirateblue, This, that and the other, TinaSharp:, @Yejianfei, Sksksjsm, Nieuwsgierige Gebruiker, FROGGEBOOPE, Heavy Metal PST5, Jan Myšák, Dm5228272:, @Bywok, Kaganer, Hellokitty~incubatorwiki, Edmundwoods, KingCrungis, Ebe123, Blackkdark:, @Leefeni de Karik, CrazyPencilDawg, Amdiux, WP Ludicer, Suzukaze-c, WOSlinker, WIKImaniac:, @Tegel, Andrew Dalby, Townie, Dyhgs, The Mighty Bleu, EdShnee, Dispenser:, @Cranberry1337, Корінь, Þe beeſte, Zippee100, A11ce, Yggdrasil Hugger, Yaroslav Zolotaryov:, @AlmightyTim, XXdeema epicgamerXx, David Kernow, X4v13r3, Akanemoto, Worm consumption, Davidgothberg:, @Wheatbreadsauce, Dickman1, Sosag332, Espreon, Breizhcatalonia1993, Primefac, Jawshewah:, @Joseph Stocke, OlegMarchuk, NotOnDuty, Node ue, Kesac, Rarted Brian, NeilN:, @Luna Santin, Monedula, BSMIsEditing, MLisDreaming, BAKFLASH, Matiia, Huhu:, @Filemon, Spangineer, Martin Rizzo, Sophia maria, Frogge facts, Frogge is beaste, Andrijko Z.:, @GeorgeMoney, RealGatba, CanadianToasts, Salix alba, SUL, SPQRobot, SPQRobin:, @Rfc1394, Redrose64, タチコマ robot:, pinging users who contributed to Middle English Wikipedia. Currently Middle English Wikipedia doesn’t have set in stone notability rules like English Wikipedia has. The de facto rule of thumb seems to be that if it’s good enough for English Wikipedia, it’s also good enough for ME Wikipedia which makes sense. However, I suggest to also have a policy for topics that don’t have articles in E Wikipedia. I would love to hear your thoughts about this and I hope the wall of text pings hasnt caused you not to read the message. Some opposers in the RfC told that Esperanto Wikipedia has “exclusive content” and that’s what makes it useful so we have an opportunity to improve ME Wikipedia. Thanks in advance, -Gifnk dlm 2020 (talk) 17:36, 1 September 2021 (UTC)Reply

Dump of incubator[edit source]

@Yair rand:, pinging an incubator admin. Since it’s obvious that the impending deletion of Middle English Wikipedia is inventible, and since the latest dump of incubator doesn’t contain the latest changes in Middle English Wikipedia, could you please create a dump of incubator containing the revisions? I wouldn’t mind it if it includes the entire incubator and I’m sure other test wikis in ancient languages are also in danger so it would be a bonus to archive them as well. Thanks in advance, -Gifnk dlm 2020 (talk) 21:52, 5 September 2021 (UTC)Reply

@Gifnk dlm 2020: Admins aren't able to initiate dumps, sorry. However, if you just want to download the contents of the Middle English Wikipedia, you might be able to do that with Special:Export using Category:Wp/enm, I think? Alternatively, you could wait until the next dump comes (probably in a week or two); I don't expect deletions to happen between now and then. --Yair rand (talk) 23:49, 5 September 2021 (UTC)Reply
@Yair rand:, thank you very much for your reply! I think I will download the latest dump, and hope ME WP doesn’t get deleted until after the next dump. But if it doesn’t then not much is lost :-) -Gifnk dlm 2020 (talk) 07:32, 6 September 2021 (UTC)Reply
BTW, what needs to be done in order to view the wiki? I understand I need to set up a home server, but I assume I also need to install the Wikimedia software. Is there a tutorial? -Gifnk dlm 2020 (talk) 09:49, 6 September 2021 (UTC)Reply
@Abuse filter, Comp1089, Danny B., Ebe123, Hydriz, Kimberley-nia Bot, MF-Warburg:, do you know how this can be done? Thanks in advance, -Gifnk dlm 2020 (talk) 11:05, 6 September 2021 (UTC)Reply
@Gifnk dlm 2020: You can install MediaWiki (the software that Wikimedia uses) by following the instructions at https://mediawiki.org. I'm curious why you think this project is being deleted, by the way. I see no indication that suggests that. Am I missing something? TheDragonFire300 (talk) 11:09, 6 September 2021 (UTC)Reply
There is a request to delete it, but it looks like the majority has voted to keep it here. --OWTB (talk) 11:16, 6 September 2021 (UTC)Reply
@Ooswesthoesbes: I did see that one, which makes the OP's certainty that "it’s obvious that the impending deletion of Middle English Wikipedia is inventible" even more confusing. Every other wind is blowing the other way, as I see it. TheDragonFire300 (talk) 11:19, 6 September 2021 (UTC)Reply
@TheDragonFire300:, yeah there is. But check out the request for comment to start allowing ancient languages. While searching for a compromise, Future Perfect at Sunrise demanded the inclusion of policies that are basically a de facto ban on Middle English. There must be an “accepted standard spelling” and users must not be expected to craft new words for concepts that didn’t exist back then. -Gifnk dlm 2020 (talk) 11:58, 6 September 2021 (UTC)Reply
@Gifnk dlm 2020: That RFC would only cover new wikis, not any in Incubator. Again, I fail to see how this justifies your insistence that this project is endangered. TheDragonFire300 (talk) 12:03, 6 September 2021 (UTC)Reply
@TheDragonFire300:, ones in the incubator don’t count as projects that “exist” - they only do when they get a subdomain. Old English Wikipedia won’t be effected since it already has one however Middle English Wikipedia will have to pass those standards before it can get one. If you read the discussion (t vast majority of it was archived) you would see that this suggestion was most likely out of hatred of this test wiki as he wrote after it that Middle English fails flat in all three. And then later he wrote that those proposals are the “less evil” since “out of question” languages like Middle English still are not allowed. -Gifnk dlm 2020 (talk) 12:09, 6 September 2021 (UTC)Reply
@TheDragonFire300:, I think I will try out the apps listed in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Database_download that was linked in reddit (idk if by you or not). I know for a fact that Kiwix doesn’t read those xml files (I tried) but it’s still useful for the offline copy of ME WP that was produced though it only includes content pages no reviews. -Gifnk dlm 2020 (talk) 13:01, 6 September 2021 (UTC)Reply
@Sbmeirow, The Anome, Brion VIBBER, Kelson, Mindmatrix, Tero~enwiki, Beland:, pinging users who have contributed to the page linked above (many users contributed so only the ones who did the largest amount of edits). Do you know of any app that can be used to view those dumps or is creating a home server the only option? Thanks in advance, -Gifnk dlm 2020 (talk) 14:24, 6 September 2021 (UTC)Reply
@Gifnk dlm 2020: I don't have Reddit, but I certainly did see your post on r/datahoarder, which is how I came here. Anyway, it's not a bad idea to back up anything, so if you need help, I would be happy to help you get your pages online. The talk page link is where to go to contact me. TheDragonFire300 (talk) 20:20, 6 September 2021 (UTC)Reply
@Gifnk dlm 2020: To use the XML files created by Special:Export, you need to visit Special:Import on another MediaWiki wiki, while this one is still online. The XML files do not contain any copy of any page on this wiki; it is downloaded by the MediaWiki instance. If you'd like, I can spin up a new instance of MW on my server and import them for you, at least. TheDragonFire300 (talk) 03:02, 7 September 2021 (UTC)Reply
@TheDragonFire300:, thank you very much! That would be much appreciated! -Gifnk dlm 2020 (talk) 09:06, 7 September 2021 (UTC)Reply
@Gifnk dlm 2020: Currently I observe no pressure to take care of things immediately, and I'm flat out with study, but since it's September break here in Australia soon, I'll take care of it over the next fortnight. TheDragonFire300 (talk) 09:13, 7 September 2021 (UTC)Reply
@TheDragonFire300:, OK, I think that’s a reasonable amount of time. The compromise proposal in the RfC is still being discussed and the discussion is much deeper than I thought it would be. -Gifnk dlm 2020 (talk) 09:18, 7 September 2021 (UTC)Reply

@TheDragonFire300:, just a question. In order for the download created by Special:Export to contain all Middle English Wikipedia, should I add all redirects, template, talk pages, etc. to the main category? Does it also do subcategories? For example, there’s a category for templates so is it ok that the templates themselves aren’t part of the main category but only of a subcategory? Thanks in advance, -Gifnk dlm 2020 (talk) 18:57, 9 September 2021 (UTC)Reply

@Gifnk dlm 2020: To answer that question: it would depend on the categorisation system. It's unlikely you'll be able to modify the cats themselves, so I'd add the categories that contain everything you'd like to add. I must admit I'm not familiar with mewikipedia's system, though. Nor have I tested subcategorises in Special:Export, so your guess is as good as mine. Only one way to find out, I guess! TheDragonFire300 (talk) 21:44, 9 September 2021 (UTC)Reply
@TheDragonFire300:, ok I see. I have no problem to add all those pages to the main category. :-) I would not like to have someone else put that effort and then discover that it should be done all over again. @1234qwer1234qwer4:, do you think that adding all the non content pages to the main category is necessary for them to be included in Special:Export? Thanks in advance, -Gifnk dlm 2020 (talk) 21:53, 9 September 2021 (UTC)Reply
@Gifnk dlm 2020: You shouldn't need to add any pages to any category. Rather, what I'd do is add all those relevant subcategories to the Special:Export form (it can take more than one category, IIRC). TheDragonFire300 (talk) 22:55, 9 September 2021 (UTC)Reply
@TheDragonFire300: ok, thank you very much! I will still need to create the categories as the only one that currently exists for non content pages is the one for templates. -Gifnk dlm 2020 (talk) 07:23, 10 September 2021 (UTC)Reply
@TheDragonFire300:, I have started creating Category:Wp/enm/Talke pāǧes. Do you think it would be reasonable if I turned Wp/enm/Wikipaedia:Sandbox to a list of categories? Thanks in advance, -Gifnk dlm 2020 (talk) 09:44, 10 September 2021 (UTC)Reply
BTW, does any body know if it’s possible to add modules to their own category as well? I tried but it told there’s an errror. -Gifnk dlm 2020 If only Middle English Wikipedia could be saved(talk) 14:01, 10 September 2021 (UTC)Reply
@Gifnk dlm 2020: Modules are an interesting one, for there aren't pages in the normal Wikipedia sense. But as for the sandbox question, I doubt anyone would mind if you did. TheDragonFire300 (talk) 23:52, 10 September 2021 (UTC)Reply
@TheDragonFire300, they are pages in the normal "Wikipedia" (probably better to say "MediaWiki" here) sense; it's just that they don't have the standard wikitext content model. 1234qwer1234qwer4 (talk) 21:29, 11 September 2021 (UTC)Reply
@1234qwer1234qwer4: Indeed, would've been better to say MW there. To think that I've known the diff between WP and MW forever and still made that slipup... but yes, there is indeed a way to categorise modules as mentioned below; but I didn't know exactly the method at the time. TheDragonFire300 (talk) 02:50, 12 September 2021 (UTC)Reply
To categorise a content model module, you would need to create a /doc subpage and add the category there. (You most likely don't want the documentation page itself included there, so I suggest wrapping it into <includeonly></includeonly> tags.) 1234qwer1234qwer4 (talk) 21:33, 11 September 2021 (UTC)Reply
@1234qwer1234qwer4:, ok I see. Thanks. The point of this categorization is that all pages should be included. -Gifnk dlm 2020 If only Middle English Wikipedia could be saved(talk) 15:08, 12 September 2021 (UTC)Reply
Maybe you could do something like <includeonly>[[Category:Modules]]</includeonly><noinclude>[[Category:Module documentation pages]]</noinclude> (with the necessary prefixes). 1234qwer1234qwer4 (talk) 15:13, 12 September 2021 (UTC)Reply
@1234qwer1234qwer4:, thank you very much! I tried it and it works! -Gifnk dlm 2020 If only Middle English Wikipedia could be saved(talk) 15:59, 12 September 2021 (UTC)Reply
Only problem is with Module:Wp/enm/Navbar/styles.css. A red link to a doc page didn’t appear so I assume if I created one manually it wouldn’t do the trick. -Gifnk dlm 2020 If only Middle English Wikipedia could be saved(talk) 16:09, 12 September 2021 (UTC)Reply
Yeah, I'm not sure if .css pages can have documentations (this is yet another content model). 1234qwer1234qwer4 (talk) 16:14, 12 September 2021 (UTC)Reply
@1234qwer1234qwer4:, ok I see. Do you know of someone who might know this? Thanks in advance, -Gifnk dlm 2020 If only Middle English Wikipedia could be saved(talk) 17:27, 12 September 2021 (UTC)Reply
@Gifnk dlm 2020: I've made a massive error; I've re-checked an old XML dump of Wikipedia, and it does turn out that there is a copy of the diff at the time (look under the text field). It is therefore not true that "[t]he XML files do not contain any copy of any page on this wiki; it is downloaded by the MediaWiki instance." I would like to apologise sincerely for this. However, it is just wikitext, meaning that it won't look like the page on its own. You'll still need MediaWiki for that. TheDragonFire300 (talk) 07:55, 12 September 2021 (UTC)Reply
@TheDragonFire300:, ok thanks for correcting. That’s also fine. The only “paradox” I see is that if you inform that you have finished, then I thank you those will be edits that weren’t included.😅 -Gifnk dlm 2020 If only Middle English Wikipedia could be saved(talk) 15:09, 12 September 2021 (UTC)Reply

@1234qwer1234qwer4, TheDragonFire300:Update: MF-Warburg has assured in the request for deletion that Middle English won’t be deleted overnight and that we will be given a chance to preserve it elsewhere:

I see that preparations for exporting the project are now being made. I also see that the strange happenings on the RFC (who even understands what's going on there anymore? …) have caused some panic about the allegedly impending deletion of the Wp/enm pages. I do think that it probably makes sense to delete the test-project if policy stays at not allowing approval of it, but I also wanted to assure you all that we won't delete the pages all of a sudden. If the contributors want to save their work elsewhere, we have always made this possible.

I also have no idea what’s going on the RfC. -Gifnk dlm 2020 If only Middle English Wikipedia could be saved(talk) 21:06, 12 September 2021 (UTC)Reply

@Gifnk dlm 2020: Sorry I haven't checked in for a while. I admit, I completely forgot to perform the Special:Export dump; but do you still need me to do that, or can you or someone else do that? TheDragonFire300 (talk) 23:48, 19 January 2022 (UTC)Reply

@TheDragonFire300:, currently the revised RfC which would have allowed some ancient languages but not Middle English (which is why I stated this thread) isn’t going anywhere, and because the incubator blocked creation of new articles in newly created test wikis of ancient languages, but not in test wikis that were created long ago like Wp/enm and some others. Also a mod in the incubator assured that deleted test wikis always get a chance to preserve their works. Thanks for the thought! -Gifnk dlm 2020 From Middle English Wikipedia 📜📖💻 (talk) 08:23, 20 January 2022 (UTC)Reply
@Gifnk dlm 2020: I went and exported it anyway. It was actually dead easy thanks to a category that applies to all enm pages, it seems, which I didn't know about when I first thought of exporting. The export was done with the "Include templates" option checked, and "Include only the current revision" disabled (so the entire history is preserved). Now, there's the issue of sharing it; if you're interested in the dump, then you could email me, and I'll be happy to share. TheDragonFire300 (talk) 08:32, 20 January 2022 (UTC)Reply
@TheDragonFire300:, I previously did not have an email attached to my account, but i have attached an email address and sent you an email. -Gifnk dlm 2020 From Middle English Wikipedia 📜📖💻 (talk) 09:05, 20 January 2022 (UTC)Reply
...and I've moments ago sent a reply with the attachment. Instructions for importing included in the body, but I can also repost them here for public benefit. TheDragonFire300 (talk) 09:08, 20 January 2022 (UTC)Reply
Hi @TheDragonFire300:, it’s been some time since you have sent and I still haven’t received it. Maybe it’s related to the size of the file, and I’m not experienced in how emailing via wikimedia works, but I suspect the email was sent by wikimedia and not by me (in order to hide the email addresses) then the reply was also sent to wikimedia. I assumed that the wikimedia server forwards those messages to the relevant emails but as of now, I still haven’t got it. Maybe it forwards with delays though. -Gifnk dlm 2020 From Middle English Wikipedia 📜📖💻 (talk) 09:31, 20 January 2022 (UTC)Reply
@Gifnk dlm 2020: Sorry to hear that. Everything looks fine on my end, so it must be an attachment size issue, then. I sent the message directly, rather than through Wikimedia's servers, and even though the attachment size is completely fine for Outlook, something else must've got stuck. I feared this would happen. All right, instead of attaching it, I'll upload a OneDrive link to the file instead, and resend the email. Stand by and I'll be back with it. Hope this one goes through, then! TheDragonFire300 (talk) 09:39, 20 January 2022 (UTC)Reply
I've resent the email with a link instead of attachment. Try checking now, if you don't mind. TheDragonFire300 (talk) 09:45, 20 January 2022 (UTC)Reply
@TheDragonFire300:, unfortunately I haven’t got this email either. Maybe you are sending them to the wrong address? Also, just curious to know, what’s the size of the files? -Gifnk dlm 2020 From Middle English Wikipedia 📜📖💻 (talk) 10:16, 20 January 2022 (UTC)Reply
Looks like email's not going to work. Instead, I've left the link on your talk page. The dump is 6,843 KiB big, to answer your question. TheDragonFire300 (talk) 10:32, 20 January 2022 (UTC)Reply
@TheDragonFire300:, thank you very much! I have downloaded it and wonder if it’s possible to upload to commons or to the internet archive. -Gifnk dlm 2020 From Middle English Wikipedia 📜📖💻 (talk) 10:41, 20 January 2022 (UTC)Reply
Perhaps. The dump file is yours now (of course, any content belonging to respective owners). Do whatever you want to it; upload it to r/datahoarder, Internet Archive... whatever you like. As someone who understands proper archival, I would certainly approve (and don't worry; I'll keep a local copy of the file as well). TheDragonFire300 (talk) 10:44, 20 January 2022 (UTC)Reply
@TheDragonFire300:, I think i will create a folder with the dump you made, the dump someone else from r/DataHoarders made, and other files related to Middle English Wikipedia such as pdf versions of certain articles, then share the folder via internet archive or ipfs. This thread is getting long so if you would like to discuss this I think it would be preferable to create a new thread and on this talk page so that other users could join. -Gifnk dlm 2020 From Middle English Wikipedia 📜📖💻 (talk) 10:53, 20 January 2022 (UTC)Reply
I have created a new thread to discuss this topic. Because the new thread is on the bottom it has better visibility than this one which is both in the middle and long. -Gifnk dlm 2020 From Middle English Wikipedia 📜📖💻 (talk) 13:14, 20 January 2022 (UTC)Reply

Special:MobileDiff/5148855[edit source]

@Liuxinyu970226:, hi I saw that you removed the notice I put in Middle Dutch Wikipedia with the text “langcom officially announced that they won't pass it”. What did you mean by this? The request was still open last time I checked. Did you mean specifically Middle Dutch Wikipedia? -Gifnk dlm 2020 (talk) 17:16, 6 September 2021 (UTC)Reply

Because that "project" was maintained only by spammers. Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 22:27, 6 September 2021 (UTC)Reply
@Liuxinyu970226:, oh I see. So did it only say that it won’t approve of those two wikis (Middle and Old Dutch)? I saw your edits and thought it said it wouldn’t approve of ancient languages in general and didn’t understand why the RfC is still open. -Gifnk dlm 2020 (talk) 09:30, 7 September 2021 (UTC)Reply
@Gifnk dlm 2020 You may want to read this response on why I can say that. Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 09:28, 8 September 2021 (UTC)Reply

Wikimedia DVD Downloads[edit source]

@1234qwer1234qwer4:, sorry if I’m spamming you, but do you know how the dvd downloads that can be seen here work, and how they can be created? Also, do they include the revisions? Thanks in advance and I hope I’m not spamming. -Gifnk dlm 2020 If only Middle English Wikipedia could be saved(talk) 08:22, 17 September 2021 (UTC)Reply

I'm not sure why you'd want a DVD format, but it doesn't seem like you can request one for an arbitrary project. 1234qwer1234qwer4 (talk) 11:04, 17 September 2021 (UTC)Reply
@1234qwer1234qwer4:, oh I see. I thought that users need to create a dvd dump themselves. Also I just assumed that with a dvd dump you can just put the disc in your computer and view the wiki. -Gifnk dlm 2020 If only Middle English Wikipedia could be saved(talk) 12:01, 17 September 2021 (UTC)Reply
I'm not aware of any regular DVD dumps; the regular dumps are done automatically once in a couple weeks. I suppose a DVD dump will not contain a lot of content anyway, since it's very limited in size, so I doubt it would have any non-article pages or high-res images, let alone version histories. 1234qwer1234qwer4 (talk) 12:04, 17 September 2021 (UTC)Reply
@1234qwer1234qwer4:, ok I see. But it looks for me like the dump of incubator is only 112.7 MB and most dvds have 4gb. Still, it probably won’t include the images. Also, I didn’t expect there to be regular dvd dumps, only a process to make one. -Gifnk dlm 2020 If only Middle English Wikipedia could be saved(talk) 12:59, 17 September 2021 (UTC)Reply

Language code enm is not valid.[edit source]

Hi @1234qwer1234qwer4:, not long ago I pressed Check localisation requirements and saw the text 0 untranslated messages. I remember in January when I joined none of the messages were translated so I thought good, someone translated all of them. Then I clicked on several of them and saw “Language code enm is not valid”. Do you know why? It was valid back in January so why isn’t it valid now? Thanks in advance, -Gifnk dlm 2020 If only Middle English Wikipedia could be saved(talk) 13:51, 27 September 2021 (UTC)Reply

No idea. According to en:Middle English, enm is indeed the correct language code in ISO 639-2 and -3. 1234qwer1234qwer4 (talk) 16:55, 27 September 2021 (UTC)Reply
@1234qwer1234qwer4:, ikr. Do you think I should ping an incubator admin? I think what happened is they probably removed Middle English from their list in wikittanslate for some reason. -Gifnk dlm 2020 If only Middle English Wikipedia could be saved(talk) 18:27, 27 September 2021 (UTC)Reply
You can try, though I think this is more likely to be a problem of mw:Extension:Translate. 1234qwer1234qwer4 (talk) 18:30, 27 September 2021 (UTC)Reply
@1234qwer1234qwer4:, I don’t think that’s the case because I tried checking out Wp/ryu (Okinawan language) and Wp/grc (Ancient Greek language) and neither of them have similar problems. If this is a bug then it seems to specifically target Middle English Wikipedia. At least the fact that Ancient Greek works proves that it’s not a blanket ban on Ancient languages. -Gifnk dlm 2020 If only Middle English Wikipedia could be saved(talk) 19:09, 27 September 2021 (UTC)Reply
@Abuse filter, Comp1089, Danny B., Ebe123, Hydriz, Kimberley-nia Bot, MF-Warburg:, do you have any idea what this is? I checked with Wp/orv (Old East Slavic/Old Russian) and they don’t have such troubles either. Looks like its only Middle English Wikipedia for some reason🤷🏻‍♂️ -Gifnk dlm 2020 If only Middle English Wikipedia could be saved(talk) 19:13, 27 September 2021 (UTC)Reply
I'm not sure how to interpret your answer. I never said anything you assumed. 1234qwer1234qwer4 (talk) 19:13, 27 September 2021 (UTC)Reply
@1234qwer1234qwer4:, oh now I get it.😅 Did you mean that it should be a question directed to them and not to the admins of incubator? -Gifnk dlm 2020 If only Middle English Wikipedia could be saved(talk) 19:18, 27 September 2021 (UTC)Reply
When I saw “a problem of” I thought for some reason that you meant a bug. -Gifnk dlm 2020 If only Middle English Wikipedia could be saved(talk) 20:05, 27 September 2021 (UTC)Reply
I don't understand you. I meant pretty much that. 1234qwer1234qwer4 (talk) 20:51, 27 September 2021 (UTC)Reply
@1234qwer1234qwer4:, you are right. It was a misunderstanding from my side. I probably thought so because I was thinking about weather it’s a bug or if it’s deliberate and I saw the words “a problem” so my brain thought of bugs. Idk why I didn’t understand on the first time. My bad. -Gifnk dlm 2020 If only Middle English Wikipedia could be saved(talk) 21:00, 27 September 2021 (UTC)Reply
I never said it was deliberate and would be surprised if it was. 1234qwer1234qwer4 (talk) 21:02, 27 September 2021 (UTC)Reply
You didn’t. I was just trying to explain how this misunderstanding appeared. -Gifnk dlm 2020 If only Middle English Wikipedia could be saved(talk) 14:22, 28 September 2021 (UTC)Reply
Yes. 1234qwer1234qwer4 (talk) 20:50, 27 September 2021 (UTC)Reply
You're talking about a message on translatewiki.net. That's a question for them to answer. --MF-W {a, b} 22:49, 27 September 2021 (UTC)Reply
@MF-Warburg:, ok thank you very much! How do I contact them? Also do they have WMF accounts so that it will be possible to ping them here? I think it’s preferable to keep Middle English Wikipedia related discussions in Middle English Wikipedia. -Gifnk dlm 2020 If only Middle English Wikipedia could be saved(talk) 14:24, 28 September 2021 (UTC)Reply
@MF-Warburg:, you may have missed the ping. Do you know if there’s a way to contact them? Thanks in advance, -Gifnk dlm 2020 If only Middle English Wikipedia could be saved(talk) 09:03, 3 October 2021 (UTC)Reply
translatewiki.net still just uses the languages from the Translate extension, I believe, so that seems more like a thing for Phabricator. 1234qwer1234qwer4 (talk) 10:52, 3 October 2021 (UTC)Reply
@1234qwer1234qwer4:, is the only way to contact them using their website? Thanks in advance, -Gifnk dlm 2020 If only Middle English Wikipedia could be saved(talk) 13:49, 3 October 2021 (UTC)Reply
As I said, you can report this as a Translation extension error on Phabricator. I doubt the extension has its own website. 1234qwer1234qwer4 (talk) 15:04, 3 October 2021 (UTC)Reply
@1234qwer1234qwer4:, by “their website” I meant phabricator😅. This is what I might end up doing but I kind of prefer to keep discussions related to Middle English Wikipedia in Middle English Wikipedia if you know what I mean. However I will probably do what you suggested. -Gifnk dlm 2020 If only Middle English Wikipedia could be saved(talk) 16:17, 3 October 2021 (UTC)Reply
The Wikimedia Phabricator is not "the website" of the Translate extension, though there is a project for it. Given that this appears to be a problem with the language support of the extension, this doesn't appear to be related to Middle English Wikipedia, so I'm not sure what exactly you mean. 1234qwer1234qwer4 (talk) 17:00, 3 October 2021 (UTC)Reply
@1234qwer1234qwer4:, this problem seems to effect only Middle English Wikipedia that’s why I said it’s “related to it”. Anyways I think I will report it as an extension error like you suggested. -Gifnk dlm 2020 If only Middle English Wikipedia could be saved(talk) 11:17, 4 October 2021 (UTC)Reply
How odes it only affect Middle English Wikipedia if you were translating on translatewiki? 1234qwer1234qwer4 (talk) 11:33, 4 October 2021 (UTC)Reply
@1234qwer1234qwer4:, if I remember correctly, last time I checked only Middle English had such an error message. However, now I checked also with Wp/grc (Ancient Greek), and Wp/cop (Coptic) and they seem to have the same problem. I also checked some wikis that are listed below “These are active and might get their own site soon” and they seem to have the same. I remember once there was a bug in “Check test wiki activity” that didn’t show test wiki activity but was later fixed so it’s probably the same here. I highly doubt they don’t already know about this since it seems to effect the entire incubator. -Gifnk dlm 2020 If only Middle English Wikipedia could be saved(talk) 12:23, 4 October 2021 (UTC)Reply
If you want anything from them, translatewiki:Support is the right address. Speculating here brings no progress. -- MF-W {a, b} 13:16, 4 October 2021 (UTC)Reply
@MF-Warburg:, thank you very much! Only because it’s a bug that affects the entire incubator I will first check to verify that nobody has reported it yet. -Gifnk dlm 2020 If only Middle English Wikipedia could be saved(talk) 13:44, 4 October 2021 (UTC)Reply

@Gifnk dlm 2020:, I don’t understand what you mean. Wp/enn exists so it’s valid. -C64 is the best computer (talk) 17:33, 10 October 2021 (UTC)Reply

@C64 is the best computer:, Wp/enm does exist. If you press “Check localization requirements”, you will see it says that it’s not valid for some reason. -Gifnk dlm 2020 If only Middle English Wikipedia could be saved(talk) 17:50, 10 October 2021 (UTC)Reply

Middle English without tears[edit source]

Hi @Laʒamon Æft-iboren:, in the same website that you linked in a discussion above to help learn Middle English there’s a language course but it has only the first part and will only truly start in January 1 2021. So I was wondering, is it possible to add it to Wp/enm/Wikipaedia:Spelling and grammar or is it still too early for that? Thanks in advance, -Gifnk dlm 2020 If only Middle English Wikipedia could be saved(talk) 13:59, 27 September 2021 (UTC)Reply

Correction:January 1, 2022, -Gifnk dlm 2020 If only Middle English Wikipedia could be saved(talk) 14:00, 27 September 2021 (UTC)Reply
@Laʒamon Æft-iboren:, I have added this resource to Wp/enm/Wikipaedia:Spelling and grammar with a notice stating that it will only start on January 2022. -Gifnk dlm 2020 If only Middle English Wikipedia could be saved(talk) 11:10, 10 October 2021 (UTC)Reply
@Gifnk dlm 2020: Ah yes, thank you for this. The site creator has postponed releasing this course a couple of times already, so hopefully they'll get it done this time and not postpone again! Laʒamon Æft-iboren (talk) 12:55, 10 October 2021 (UTC)Reply
@Laʒamon Æft-iboren:, you are welcome. Hopefully it won’t get postponed. -Gifnk dlm 2020 If only Middle English Wikipedia could be saved(talk) 13:05, 10 October 2021 (UTC)Reply

Update: It was apparently postponed again. This time to January 1, 2023. Should I write that it will start in January 2023, or should I leave that it will hopefully start at an unknown date? -Gifnk dlm 2020 From Middle English Wikipedia 📜📖💻 (talk) 08:05, 29 January 2022 (UTC)Reply

Translatewiki[edit source]

Hi, @1234qwer1234qwer4, MF-Warburg:, I know that several days have passed and I still have not reported this bug, but I would just like to make sure, does translatewiki use the same accounts that other Wikimedia projects or not? Because I can log in to Wikibooks fine but big ti translatewiki. Thanks in advance, -Gifnk dlm 2020 If only Middle English Wikipedia could be saved(talk) 10:35, 10 October 2021 (UTC)Reply

No, you need to create a separate account on translatewiki. 1234qwer1234qwer4 (talk) 00:46, 16 October 2021 (UTC)Reply
@1234qwer1234qwer4:, ok. Thanks for clarifying! -Gifnk dlm 2020 If only Middle English Wikipedia could be saved(talk) 12:28, 16 October 2021 (UTC)Reply

Deletion of article about Columbus[edit source]

@MF-Warburg: why did you delete Wp/enm/Christopher Columbus? -C64 is the best computer (talk) 16:39, 10 October 2021 (UTC)Reply

Just FYI, when a user suggested to delete it it really didn’t have any useful content. I have since added. -C64 is the best computer (talk) 16:45, 10 October 2021 (UTC)Reply

Restore This is a newly created article since it didn’t exist last time I checked. According to the log it’s seem that it want created in order to troll so I think it should be restored. -Gifnk dlm 2020 If only Middle English Wikipedia could be saved(talk) 17:30, 10 October 2021 (UTC)Reply

@Liuxinyu970226:, could you please restore the page? -C64 is the best computer (talk) 17:22, 10 October 2021 (UTC)Reply

Oppose as you're a sockpuppet, deletion is in general in right way to handle accounts like yours. Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 11:09, 27 October 2021 (UTC)Reply
And here I thought deletion exists for articles with no useful content or about non-notable topics. -Gifnk dlm 2020 If only Middle English Wikipedia could be saved(talk) 12:14, 27 October 2021 (UTC)Reply
Also you didn’t tell what kind of evidence do you want submitted. -Gifnk dlm 2020 If only Middle English Wikipedia could be saved(talk) 12:34, 27 October 2021 (UTC)Reply
The SRCU log is already enough. For notable, either you have to provide why the previous contents are notable, or why don't you just re-create? Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 01:14, 28 October 2021 (UTC)Reply
@Liuxinyu970226:, what do you mean by “SRCU log”? Also, I understand that every edit must be credited to the editors in the revision history so recreating it would violate this rule. -Gifnk dlm 2020 If only Middle English Wikipedia could be saved(talk) 05:30, 29 October 2021 (UTC)Reply
@Gifnk dlm 2020Should I copy-paste this section for you for several times to let you remember what you did wrong? Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 05:45, 29 October 2021 (UTC)Reply
@Liuxinyu970226:, I know, letting someone else edit from my home probably wasn’t the best of ideas. I just asked what “SRCU” meant? Does it mean Steward Review CheckUser? -Gifnk dlm 2020 If only Middle English Wikipedia could be saved(talk) 07:03, 29 October 2021 (UTC)Reply
Regarding "letting someone else edit from my home probably wasn’t the best of ideas", if you really can tell us your evidences that you indeed allowed another human (not your another hand or leg), and you promise that their editing behaviors are at least 75% different from yours (see also some examples on the allowed cases), you may, and you may ask that user to, use this user page template. SRCU is the shortcut for Steward requests/Checkuser page on Meta-Wiki, you may argue that this shortcut is problemic, that's however irrelevant from this topic, and especially from what I'm concerning. Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 10:47, 29 October 2021 (UTC)Reply
@Liuxinyu970226:, again, you haven’t told how to submit this evidence. I can put this template on my user page but it seems as if the user you are talking about has forgotten his password. -Gifnk dlm 2020 If only Middle English Wikipedia could be saved(talk) 12:34, 29 October 2021 (UTC)Reply
Unfortunatelly you don't have to worry about that problem, because afaik that user has been globally locked. Do not ask me to appeal it, instead send an email to stewards@wikimedia.org. Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 00:47, 1 November 2021 (UTC)Reply
@Liuxinyu970226:, I’m not surprised and I didn’t plan to ask for an appeal. As I have told, I can put this template on my user page if you feel it’s necessary. -Gifnk dlm 2020 If only Middle English Wikipedia could be saved(talk) 11:56, 1 November 2021 (UTC)Reply

@Abuse filter, Comp1089, Danny B., Ebe123, Hydriz, Kimberley-nia Bot, MF-Warburg:, pinging incubator admins. Any comment on the proposed restoration of thus article? As stated above, I can add this template to my user page. -Gifnk dlm 2020 If only Middle English Wikipedia could be saved(talk) 16:13, 2 November 2021 (UTC)Reply

All contents can be seen in the deletion log, and I'm pretty sure that is incorrect Middle English. --OWTB (talk) 16:14, 2 November 2021 (UTC)Reply
@Ooswesthoesbes:, if I’m not mistaken the article was deleted for not having any useful content. -Gifnk dlm 2020 If only Middle English Wikipedia could be saved(talk) 15:50, 3 November 2021 (UTC)Reply
Yes, that's why there is no reason for restoring it. --OWTB (talk) 15:51, 3 November 2021 (UTC)Reply
@Ooswesthoesbes:, The creator of this article told me that when this template was added, the article only had the words “Columbus discovered America” with spelling mistakes. Then he tried to fix it but the article was deleted far sooner than he expected thus the mistakes. -Gifnk dlm 2020 If only Middle English Wikipedia could be saved(talk) 15:59, 3 November 2021 (UTC)Reply
That is a lot of people to be pinging... Ebe123 (Talkabout it|contribs) 04:27, 4 November 2021 (UTC)Reply

First weeks of Middle English Wikipedia[edit source]

Í know the week of Albania is coming 18 of October and ends in 26 of October 2021 And the week of Ukraine is coming 21 of October and ends in 31 of October Template:Wp/enm/Unsigned

@, several things:
  1. You can sign messages by typing ~~~~. (It’s highly desirable that you create an account as it will make collaboration easier but even if you don’t want please sign your messages).
  2. What are you talking about?😅
  3. I suggest checking out Template:Wp/enm/Contree for your newly created article. Is used in many pages you can check out Wp/enm/United States as an example.
Thanks in advance, -Gifnk dlm 2020 If only Middle English Wikipedia could be saved(talk) 16:47, 11 October 2021 (UTC)Reply
@Laʒamon Æft-iboren:, do you know what he’s talking about?-Gifnk dlm 2020 If only Middle English Wikipedia could be saved(talk) 12:33, 16 October 2021 (UTC)Reply

What just happened[edit source]

Ok, here’s how this looked like for me. I entered the incubator to check if there any new edits in ME WP. Then I saw a ping from @1234qwer1234qwer4: in meta:Steward requests/Checkuser, but when I entered the discussion was already archived. I checked the revision history to see the last revision where it still existed, and saw that I was “confirmed” as a sockpuppet of @C64 is the best computer:. Now, that user is not me and I know just that he created an article about Columbus, the article got deleted, and that he has left several comments here. The content during time of deletion according to the log was:

"{{delete|No useful content}} thumb Christopher Columbus was a trádere, explorer, an navigator from Genoa. His Italian náme is Crustoforo Colombo. Hé visitet Bahamas in North America in 1492."

Thanks in advance, -Gifnk dlm 2020 If only Middle English Wikipedia could be saved(talk) 12:15, 14 October 2021 (UTC)Reply

That does not sound very credible. --MF-W {a, b} 22:52, 14 October 2021 (UTC)Reply

@QuiteUnusual:, hi I have seen your comment in English Wikibooks. After clarifications, I have understood that the edits you were talking about were done by another person (not me) using the same device with a different browser. Won’t happen again. :-) -Gifnk dlm 2020 If only Middle English Wikipedia could be saved(talk) 21:01, 15 October 2021 (UTC)Reply

I think I am inclined to believe you although I may check with the Steward who dealt with the CU request at Meta. At the moment you are autoblocked on en.wb because your underlying IP was blocked when the "sock" was blocked. I'm disinclined to remove the auto block as it would reveal your IP to anyone paying attention. It'll unblock automatically within a day QuiteUnusual (talk) 22:10, 15 October 2021 (UTC)Reply
@QuiteUnusual:, ok I understand. Thank you very much! -Gifnk dlm 2020 If only Middle English Wikipedia could be saved(talk) 12:27, 16 October 2021 (UTC)Reply
@Gifnk dlm 2020: But why do you think that C64 is the best computer isn't your account? Even both are confirmed? Are you really sure you're sharing same IP ranges in good behaviors? Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 00:54, 24 October 2021 (UTC)Reply

Hi @1234qwer1234qwer4:, I have seen the comment you left in my talk page in EN WB. Indeed, the same person is behind @C64 is the best computer: and @Your favorite emperor:. He told that he was mad because @MF-Warburg: deleted his article but it seems as if he understands why such behavior is unacceptable. -Gifnk dlm 2020 If only Middle English Wikipedia could be saved(talk) 16:23, 16 October 2021 (UTC)Reply

@Gifnk dlm 2020: Who is the 'he' you are talking about? And I'm also curious how you are so sure about the relationship between the two accounts presented. --Sotiale (talk) 11:38, 18 October 2021 (UTC)Reply
@Sotiale:, oh he’s someone I know in real life. He wanted to create an article in Middle English Wikipedia and created one about Columbus. After it got deleted, and he submitted a request to restore it in this page , and after the deleter ignored despite being pinged, he decided to do what he did. There was no any vandalism from @C64 is the best computer: plus he edited from my house so blocking the ip would be blocking me not him, so I don’t think there’s any point in blocking him. P.S. I don’t condone such behavior as from @Your favorite emperor:, just explaining the process. -Gifnk dlm 2020 If only Middle English Wikipedia could be saved(talk) 13:47, 19 October 2021 (UTC)Reply
@Sotiale:, I know this doesn’t account to actual evidence and for obvious reasons I won’t disclose any personal information of anyone. However I would like to say that the request to restore the page should be taken seriously regardless of what the user who created it may or may not have done. -Gifnk dlm 2020 If only Middle English Wikipedia could be saved(talk) 13:25, 20 October 2021 (UTC)Reply
Oppose restoring the page you mentioned, unless if you have evidences to let stewards know that you're "not socking" Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 01:09, 24 October 2021 (UTC)Reply
@Liuxinyu970226:, what kind of evidence do you want to see submitted? For obvious reasons I won’t release anyone’s personal information. Also from what I understand decisions in Wikipedia are not done by votes, but by arguments. -Gifnk dlm 2020 If only Middle English Wikipedia could be saved(talk) 08:36, 24 October 2021 (UTC)Reply
Suggest permanently blocking User:C64 is the best computer, as they still didn't clarified their relations in their userpages. --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 01:06, 24 October 2021 (UTC)Reply

Number of articles[edit source]

Hi, according to the main page there are CD (400) articles, but according to the main category only 385. Which one is more reliable and what causes the inaccuracies in the second? First time I noticed this was in February. Thanks in advance, -Gifnk dlm 2020 If only Middle English Wikipedia could be saved(talk) 13:03, 16 October 2021 (UTC)Reply

A Religion[edit source]

@Gifnk dlm 2020: Hello Gifnk! If possible, please create an article on en:Sanamahism in this enm wiki and if possible, please add it to the enm mainpage too. Thanks! :) Haoreima (talk) 14:18, 3 November 2021 (UTC)Reply

@Haoreima:, sure. I can create such a page. Usually I like to use Simple English Wikipedia as a starting point since it’s easy to translate. Could you please verify if the content there is factual? https://simple.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanamahism. Thanks in advance, -Gifnk dlm 2020 If only Middle English Wikipedia could be saved(talk) 15:48, 3 November 2021 (UTC)Reply
@Gifnk dlm 2020: Yes, but it's best if we put the information "ancient ancestor worshipping religion" as the third sentence. Haoreima (talk) 16:01, 3 November 2021 (UTC)Reply
@Haoreima:, ok thanks for the feedback. I will start work on the article right away. -Gifnk dlm 2020 If only Middle English Wikipedia could be saved(talk) 16:05, 3 November 2021 (UTC)Reply
@Gifnk dlm 2020: You are right! Choosing simple english wiki article is a good choice because regular english articles associated with this topic has been the place of edit warring by many editors. So, neutrality is often challenged. And as I can't edit regular english wiki, there's either none or very few people who know the topic well in depth to upgrade the information on this topics. Very sad! Haoreima (talk) 16:09, 3 November 2021 (UTC)Reply
@Haoreima:, I have created the page Wp/enm/Sanamahism. The reason you listed is not what I meant but it’s also a good one. I meant that it’s easier to translate short sentences and then expand upon them. Nevertheless, I hope ME WP does better than English Wikipedia in terms of neutrality. -Gifnk dlm 2020 If only Middle English Wikipedia could be saved(talk) 16:38, 3 November 2021 (UTC)Reply
Also hī is the Middle English equivalent to they. You can learn more in the following link: https://adoneilson.com/eme/language/pronouns.html. -Gifnk dlm 2020 If only Middle English Wikipedia could be saved(talk) 16:39, 3 November 2021 (UTC)Reply
@Gifnk dlm 2020: You are right! I shall try to learn Middle English soon! And thank you for creating the article on this religion! I don't know how thee, thou, thy,thine, art,eve, morn, etc. are interpreted in Middle English! :) Haoreima (talk) 16:43, 3 November 2021 (UTC)Reply
@Haoreima:, you are welcome. You can find a list of online resources about Middle English Wikipedia at the end of Wp/enm/Wikipaedia:Spelling and grammar. -Gifnk dlm 2020 If only Middle English Wikipedia could be saved(talk) 17:07, 3 November 2021 (UTC)Reply
@Gifnk dlm 2020: Thank you! But if possible, please add this religion's name to your main page! :) Haoreima (talk) 11:56, 4 November 2021 (UTC)Reply
@Haoreima:, Done ✅. Also in Wp/enm/Religioun. -Gifnk dlm 2020 If only Middle English Wikipedia could be saved(talk) 14:29, 4 November 2021 (UTC)Reply
Thank you so much! :) Haoreima (talk) 02:15, 5 November 2021 (UTC)Reply
@Haoreima: You are welcome. :-) -Gifnk dlm 2020 If only Middle English Wikipedia could be saved(talk) 09:27, 5 November 2021 (UTC)Reply

BTW, @Haoreima:, I have noticed Wp/omp was really active back then but not now. Just curious to know, do you have plans to make it active again? Thanks in advance, -Gifnk dlm 2020 If only Middle English Wikipedia could be saved(talk) 08:24, 20 November 2021 (UTC)Reply

@Gifnk dlm 2020: Of course, I will be back soon! But I have a great desire to make the contents of Manipuri wikipedia/Meitei wikipedia reach 10,000 articles. Yesterday, SHE reached 8000+. And I hope within a few weeks, SHE will cover her 10k+ articles. In fact, I consider "mni wiki" as mother and "Wp/omp" as grandma. After decorating Mom, I will adore my grandma! :) Haoreima (talk) 08:35, 20 November 2021 (UTC)Reply
@Haoreima:, ok. Great to know. Good luck with reaching 10,000 articles in mni wp. -Gifnk dlm 2020 If only Middle English Wikipedia could be saved(talk) 08:49, 20 November 2021 (UTC)Reply
@Gifnk dlm 2020: Yesterday, SHE reached HER milestone of 10,000 articles. I was about to inform you yesterday but due to lots of works confined, I almost forgot you! Sorry! :) Haoreima (talk) 03:07, 1 December 2021 (UTC)Reply
@Haoreima:, great to know! Keep up for good work! -Gifnk dlm 2020 If only Middle English Wikipedia could be saved(talk) 08:43, 1 December 2021 (UTC)Reply

Plz, dont mistake :)[edit source]

Recently I created the article about Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan Put the flag and COA (coat of arms) of Taliban in the infobox due to trendly dangerous August events Thank you! 07:53, 20 November 2021 (UTC)Reply

@, I have added a country template. You can check it out. Please consider making an account for future contributions as it makes collaboration a lot easier. -Gifnk dlm 2020 If only Middle English Wikipedia could be saved(talk) 08:21, 20 November 2021 (UTC)Reply

Recruiting members[edit source]

@Gifnk dlm 2020, 1234qwer1234qwer4, YoungstownToast, JustinCB, Qmwne235, Gray Porpoise, Laʒamon Æft-iboren:, @Warofdreams, Crochet.david.bot, Xbspiro, Kimberley-nia Bot, Artoria2e5, X Parasite~incubatorwiki, EvilPita:, @Ursulageorges, Malhonen, Pc98isthegreatestsystemevermad, 夢桜宮見久, C64 is the best computer, ChimNung, CommonsDelinker:, @Steinbach, Doogdoggo1234, Biglittlehugesmall65, ABAlphaBeta, Potvisgg, Bridget, Jkrosado:, @Murchison-Eye, Footyspeed, Bouymanbob, Child of Garrett, InternetArchiveBot, Counselbytheelves, JonsterMonster:, pinging the top 100 users in “check test wiki activity”. It’s obvious that Middle English Wikipedia has become less active that it used to be, and I’m curious to know if you have any ideas on ways how to contact people interested and knowledgeable in Middle English. Since I have joined this wiki in January of this year, I have tried multiple ways and maybe I have got a wrong impression but I don’t think anyone of them has brought people passionate about Middle English Wikipedia to hear. I would love to hear your suggestions, and if you know people whom you think might be interested even if just to read not to write, please tell them about this wiki. The link is https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/enm. Also I feel this discussion is also relevant for Wp/omp and Wp/grc even though the latter seems to have multiple passionate users. -Gifnk dlm 2020 If only Middle English Wikipedia could be saved(talk) 11:02, 12 December 2021 (UTC)Reply

Pinging global locked accounts e.g. C64 is the best computer is not only useless, but also a potential reason to trigger global ban if one day other criterias of that thing met. Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 07:11, 14 December 2021 (UTC)Reply
@Liuxinyu970226:, I don’t see how any of those reasons can be triggered by pinging editors of this wiki on a topic of such high importance. Also, I will be grateful if you ping me in your reply. -Gifnk dlm 2020 If only Middle English Wikipedia could be saved(talk) 16:04, 15 December 2021 (UTC)Reply

Usage of &[edit source]

From what I understand, the ampersand didn't take it's current shape until modern English. Would it make sense to use a different character to represent it, should it be entirely replaced with "and", or should it stay as &? Template:Wp/enm/Unsigned

Hi @, according to ampersand, the symbol was used by the ark and in the first century A.D. and that Byrhtferð (970-1020) considered it as a letter in the English alphabet. Also, don’t forget to ding your messages by typing ~~~~ and it’s highly desirable though not mandatory that you create an account. -Gifnk dlm 2020 If only Middle English Wikipedia could be saved(talk) 20:48, 16 December 2021 (UTC)Reply

Copyright[edit source]

Hi @I have 2 dollars in my pocket:, I see that the image you uploaded to commons for use in Middle English Wikipedia is in risk of getting deleted. I also see that you downloaded it from pixabay, a website that allows free use without attribution necessary. Please add this licensing information otherwise the file will get deleted in 7 days. Thanks in advance, -Gifnk dlm 2020 If only Middle English Wikipedia could be saved(talk) 21:06, 16 December 2021 (UTC)Reply

@Túrelio:, pinging a commons admin, multiple images from pixabay have been uploaded recently to commons for use in Middle English Wikipedia. I know that pixabay allows to freely use their images but I see in commons it’s written that if no copyright info is written it will be deleted in 7 days. What to do? Thanks in advance, -Gifnk dlm 2020 If only Middle English Wikipedia could be saved(talk) 07:41, 17 December 2021 (UTC)Reply
@Jmabel:, maybe you know what should be done? -Gifnk dlm 2020 If only Middle English Wikipedia could be saved(talk) 16:14, 17 December 2021 (UTC)Reply
I could be mistaken, and I can't specifically speak to any uploads directly to the Middle English Wikipedia (I don't know their policies on non-free use) but I think since Pixabay's changed their license, it's no longer "free enough" for Commons. They have two (perfectly reasonable) prohibitions:
✕ Don't redistribute or sell Pixabay content on other stock or wallpaper platforms.
✕ Don't sell unaltered copies of content, e.g. don't sell an exact copy of a stock photo as a poster, print or on a physical product.
Unfortunately, those perfectly reasonable prohibitions make their content insufficiently free for Commons. - 19:26, 17 December 2021 (UTC)Reply
@, you can’t upload directly to Middle English Wikipedia so all images are uploaded to commons. So does this license not allow upload to commons even though it’s free for use with no attribution required? -Gifnk dlm 2020 If only Middle English Wikipedia could be saved(talk) 08:23, 18 December 2021 (UTC)Reply
@Gifnk dlm 2020: Not allowed because of the two restrictions I quoted above. - 18:29, 18 December 2021 (UTC)Reply
@, I see. Makes sense thank you very much!
No offense to the IP address who posted this but @1234qwer1234qwer4:, is this true? It makes sense based on previous experience with commons that those restrictions would make it ineligible for inclusion but just want to be sure. -Gifnk dlm 2020 If only Middle English Wikipedia could be saved(talk) 18:50, 18 December 2021 (UTC)Reply
@Gifnk dlm 2020 See c:template:Pixabay. Before 9 January 2019, Pixabay files were licensed freely, but I don't know which file you are talking about specifically. 1234qwer1234qwer4 (talk) 15:10, 19 December 2021 (UTC)Reply
@1234qwer1234qwer4:, oh I see. Thank joy very much! It seems though that some of the images were uploaded after 2019. Here are the links: File:Honey been.jpg (2021), File:Waspy.jpg (2018). Also there’s File:A vairity of insecte.png which says that it was taken from Wikipedia not sure what that means. -Gifnk dlm 2020 If only Middle English Wikipedia could be saved(talk) 15:45, 19 December 2021 (UTC)Reply
@1234qwer1234qwer4:, I have added a template for the page about wasp. Also @Spamton1997:, don’t forget to add license information for images you plan to upload in the future. Thanks in advance, -Gifnk dlm 2020 If only Middle English Wikipedia could be saved(talk) 16:36, 20 December 2021 (UTC)Reply

Why so simple?[edit source]

Why do we have to make all of the ME articles so simple? Why don't we treat it like the English Wikipedia? 15:44, 19 December 2021 (UTC)Reply

@, are you talking about the fact that most of the articles are short? Ideally it should be like English Wikipedia but unfortunately there’s much less activity therefore the articles are naturally shorter. -Gifnk dlm 2020 If only Middle English Wikipedia could be saved(talk) 15:48, 19 December 2021 (UTC)Reply

It makes sense most articles are short since the wiki is smallBhhghj (talk) 20:06, 23 December 2021 (UTC)Reply

Standardization questions[edit source]

  1. Do we use obsolete letters like þ?
  2. Do we use the letters J and V?
  3. Do we use "biþ/bith" or "is" as the 3rd person singular copula? 13:26, 20 December 2021 (UTC)Reply
@, based on previous consensus “yes” for questions 1 and 3, though I don’t think there ever was a decision about the second question. I wonder if @Laʒamon Æft-iboren: has anything to say about the topic. -Gifnk dlm 2020 If only Middle English Wikipedia could be saved(talk) 14:07, 20 December 2021 (UTC)Reply
@, @Gifnk dlm 2020:
1. Yes, you can use þ, ȝ, ſ, ð, ƿ, and/or æ, though none are essential. The first 3 are appropriate for any variety of Middle English (M.E.), while the last 3 are suitable if you're aiming to write in an early M.E. variety, so pre-1350-ish (pre-1250-ish for æ).
2. V, definitely. 'U' and 'V' are used completely interchangeably on this Wiki as they were historically (there were some conventions about when to use which, but nothing that all scribes followed historically, nor that all editors here do today). 'J' and 'I' were also sort of interchangeable, though I only use 'J' occasionally, mostly at the end of a word or in some names, because it was rarer historically. If in doubt, use 'I'.
3. Both forms are valid. I think 'biþ' (+ variant spellings) is used disproportionately often vs. 'is' (+ variants) on M.E. Wikipaedia compared to historically, where 'is' is more common than 'biþ'. Using 'biþ' is an easy way to make an article sound less modern, though, so I can understand why it's preferred.
With regards to the section title, there is currently no standardisation (of language) on M.E. Wiki, and I expect it will stay that way, as there was no standard dialect or spelling system until the end of the M.E. period - and even then only partially. There are also other discussions relating to some of these topics elsewhere on this talk page. -Laʒamon Æft-iboren (talk) 00:23, 22 February 2022 (UTC)Reply
@Laʒamon Æft-iboren:, Thank you very much! I think this information should be added to Wp/enm/Wikipaedia:Spelling and grammar. -📜GIFNK📚DLM💻MMXX🏰 (TALK⌚️📱⌨️🖥🖨🕹💽💾💿📀📸📹🎥📽🎞📠📺📻📡🔋CONTRIBS) 12:31, 22 February 2022 (UTC)Reply
@Amicus111:, what do you think? -🇺🇦GIFNK🇺🇦DLM🇺🇦MMXX🇺🇦SLAVA🇺🇦UKRAINI🇺🇦(TALK)🇺🇦 19:39, 26 February 2022 (UTC)Reply
@Gifnk dlm 2020: I agree with Layman.
1. The first three chars are mandatory. I have seen no middle english text that does not use thorn, yogh. However, I disagree with the long s thing, because it was dropped somewhere in the 1400's, so it depends on the period. Also, wynn and ash are much earlier, in the 1250- and 1350-ish time.
3. Is and bith are interchangeable, though is is more common.
2. Correct.
Last one - There are absolutely no standardized spelling or dialect conventions in literacy.
Þancie þe, AMICVS·III | TALK 23:03, 26 February 2022 (UTC)Reply
@Amicus111:, thank you very much! Do you think it should be added to Wp/enm/Wikipaedia:Spelling and grammar? -🇺🇦GIFNK🇺🇦DLM🇺🇦MMXX🇺🇦SLAVA🇺🇦UKRAINI🇺🇦(TALK)🇺🇦 08:00, 27 February 2022 (UTC)Reply
@Gifnk dlm 2020: Yes I believe it should be added to Wp/enm/Wikipaedia:Spelling and grammar. Since you agree, I will go ahead and write it there. Þancie þe, AMICVS·III | TALK 13:08, 27 February 2022 (UTC)Reply
@Amicus111:, thank you very much! -🇺🇦GIFNK🇺🇦DLM🇺🇦MMXX🇺🇦SLAVA🇺🇦UKRAINI🇺🇦(TALK)🇺🇦 15:16, 27 February 2022 (UTC)Reply

New here[edit source]

Hi I’m new here How to edit Middle English Wikipedia?Bhhghj (talk) 20:02, 23 December 2021 (UTC)Reply

nvm I managed to figure out still would love to get some explanationsBhhghj (talk) 20:48, 23 December 2021 (UTC)Reply

Is there a faster way to typing ME characters other than copy-pasting? Amicus111 (talk) 21:31, 23 December 2021 (UTC)Reply

Is there a faster way to type ME characters rather than copy-pasting? Amicus111 (talk) 21:33, 23 December 2021 (UTC)Reply

@Amicus111:, in visual editing in desktop mode, you can type Unicode characters by pressing on the button right of “Insert”. Not sure if searching there is faster than copy pasting or not though. -Gifnk dlm 2020 If only Middle English Wikipedia could be saved(talk) 21:54, 23 December 2021 (UTC)Reply
You might be able to configure a custom keyboard (e.g., using the Microsoft Keyboard Layout Creator for Windows). 1234qwer1234qwer4 (talk) 12:05, 24 December 2021 (UTC)Reply
@1234qwer1234qwer4:, sorry for the late reply. I have missed your message. I edit using an iPad but @Amicus111: might find this of interest. -Gifnk dlm 2020 Happy New Year 🎄❄️⛄️🎇 (talk) 18:43, 30 December 2021 (UTC)Reply
The app costs 5 dollars or so but you can use Unicode Pad Pro to create custom keyboards on iOS/iPad OS devices. 1234qwer1234qwer4 (talk) 20:07, 30 December 2021 (UTC)Reply
@1234qwer1234qwer4:, oh I see. I’m already accustomed to copying and pasting from other articles but thanks anyways. -Gifnk dlm 2020 Happy New Year 🎄❄️⛄️🎇 (talk) 22:45, 30 December 2021 (UTC)Reply
@1234qwer1234qwer4: and @Gifnk dlm 2020:; þank þe boþ of you. after þe þing þat i read þat was qwer's suggestion i found þat þe special character panel is as fast as the keyboard. alþough, i do not have þe computer. þþþÞþ. Thank you, AMICVS·III 20:25, 30 December 2021 (UTC) þReply
@Amicus111:, great to know! -Gifnk dlm 2020 Happy New Year 🎄❄️⛄️🎇 (talk) 22:46, 30 December 2021 (UTC)Reply

Merry Christmas 2021 to Middle English Wikipedia[edit source]

Happy New Year 2022 for Middle English Wikipedia[edit source]

Also enjoy the New Year animation I have made. -Gifnk dlm 2020 Happy New Year 🎄❄️⛄️🎇 (talk) 22:25, 31 December 2021 (UTC)Reply
@DTL1234, Vinguru, Josephine W., Bywok, GoodClover, Varlaam, Amicus111:, Happy New Year! -Gifnk dlm 2020 Happy New Year 🎄❄️⛄️🎇 (talk) 00:01, 1 January 2022 (UTC)Reply

Reflections on the year 2021[edit source]

The year 2022 has started in Israel so it’s time to reflect on our accomplissements in 2021, and out plans for 2022. It’s important to remember that before 2021, there was not a single month with 3 non greyed out users, but every month in 2021 has. Before 2021, there was not a single month with more than 90 edits but every single month in 2021 has. I think it’s safe to say that 2021 has been the best year for Middle English Wikipedia so far and hopefully 2022 will be better. Happy New Year y’all! -Gifnk dlm 2020 Happy New Year 🎄❄️⛄️🎇 (talk) 22:22, 31 December 2021 (UTC)Reply

Also in 2021, there were 11 threads in this talk page. Now there are 53. -Gifnk dlm 2020 Happy New Year 🎄❄️⛄️🎇 (talk) 22:23, 31 December 2021 (UTC)Reply

Middle English Without Tears has not started yet.[edit source]

Hi@1234qwer1234qwer4, Haoreima, Laʒamon Æft-iboren:, In Wp/enm/Wikipaedia:Spelling and grammar, I have added to the list of resources Middle English Without Tears that was supposed to start on January 1, 2022. Now is January 6 and it still hasn’t. What do you think should I do, remove the resource from the list completely or write will start at an unknown date? Thanks in advance, -Gifnk dlm 2020 Happy New Year 🎄❄️⛄️🎇 (talk) 14:40, 6 January 2022 (UTC)Reply

Hi @Gifnk dlm 2020: The page you linked is a very informative page. I keep it under my watchlist. Please don't remove or delete it if possible. Your wish is the ultimate but I just like it be kept and developed, like you were doing before! :-) Haoreima (talk) 14:46, 6 January 2022 (UTC)Reply
@Haoreima:, oh. I also don’t like the idea of removing it from the list. I think I will just write “will start at an unknown date”. -Gifnk dlm 2020 Happy New Year 🎄❄️⛄️🎇 (talk) 15:43, 6 January 2022 (UTC)Reply

Unable to create any new article[edit source]

I am unable to create any new article in Wp/omp test wiki. While trying to create so, the process is automatically blocked. But I can