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Half (give or take a few) of the Prūsiska Wikipēdija copied to Wp/prg - What should be done?

Latest comment: 1 day ago11 comments4 people in discussion

I had assumed Nertiks would be fine with copying it over; as there was no response. I started making pages here on October 7, and started importing on the 31st. However, somewhere in/after December, I found what he said on the request for the Prussian Wikipedia:

"The Prussian Wikipedia started to work on an independent server: http://wikipedia.prusaspira.ez.lv (now http://wikipedia.prusaspira.org) after refusing it in the official Wikipedia. We have 6 authors who write articles more or less regularly. From the technical point of view it would be better to make the decision about Wikipedia for our language using the material on this server, not to start an Incubator, which can disappear and work of people can be wasted then." --User:Nertiks; 27 Febuary 2012

Nowadays, the independent Wikipedia has only two users (or three, if you count WūranArtīkelinRedigītajs, who may be Nertiks): Nertiks and me. It appears that the data was transferred (between servers? due to a server error?) on 28 September 2021. I joined on the 26th of 2024.

Plus, there have been many, many other instances of copying from the Prūsiska Wikipēdija, so I thought it would be fine. I copied half of the Prūsiska Wikipēdija over (give or take a few articles). It's licensed with CC BY-SA-4.0, however I suspect that the way I did it breaks the licensing, by not specifically adding the CC BY-SA-4.0 link to the commit message every time.

Should the articles that I imported be mass-deleted?
Should we export every single article that exists in Wp/prg to the Prūsiska Wikipēdija, convert it to their orthography, and have the Prussian Wikipedia go the way of Toki Pona?
Should I ask Nertiks again and tell him what I did?
Should I should be blocked from editing the Incubator because there's a rule I violated by doing this?
- If so, should it be temporary or indefinite?
Or should nothing happen?

This may be such a massive blunder that I felt like I had to go here instead of the Community Portal. Sorry. Kxeon (talk) 15:39, 12 June 2025 (UTC)Reply

Is the whole test-wiki wp/prg a duplicate of the independent wiki, copied by you? --MF-W {a, b} 11:56, 9 July 2025 (UTC)Reply

Definitely not. Quite a few of the pages are not from the Prūsiska Wikipēdija. There are currently 309 pages on the Incubator. I don't really know how many of those are copied from the Prūsiska Wikipēdija, as I did way too much and others have also not labelled their imports but;

Tīgelka imported 4 pages, correctly for the most part. They placed the license and URL in their edit summary. There's just no link.

NawsPiteris imported 65 pages from the Prūsiska Wikipēdija. Piteris is a part of Prusaspirā, the proposer of the second request for Wikipedia Prussian, and was a user of the Prūsiska Wikipēdija before the migration, which destroyed all data. Due to the destruction of the data, it's hard/impossible to tell whether or not NawsPiteris copied from the Prūsiska Wikipēdija, or if the Prūsiska Wikipēdija copied from them.
I imported too many to give an exact number... I estimate 175~200...
And there are definitely a few more people that I'm forgetting, of whom imported from the Prūsiska Wikipēdija. From what I remember, 2.

As far as I can tell though, nobody else has imported articles from the Prūsiska Wikipēdija. Recently, anyway.

If I understand you correctly, what you did was manually copying content from the external wiki without attributing the source, right? Well, we've had a similar thing going on with Interslavic (Wp/isv): at first, I asked several times if it would be possible to go "the way of Toki Pona" but never received an answer, and after three months, some people started copying articles from our external wiki, and gradually, the work moved from that wiki to the Incubator. Obviously, two wikis being worked on simultaneously is most undesirable, so that's why I put a banner in the external wiki asking people to edit the Incubator instead.

I wouldn't worry too much about the copyright infringement if I were you, because that situation can simply be undone by importing all articles along with their histories at some later point. The only thing is that importing them to the Incubator would require quite some extra work because of the prefixes. That's why it might be better to wait with that until the Prussian wiki has been created.

And anyway, the Incubator at least gives you the advantage that activity can easily be monitored. An external wiki is harder to check for sockpuppetry and probably won't make it possible to verify if all the requirements are met.

IJzeren Jan (besěda) 21:02, 9 July 2025 (UTC)Reply

Huh. It seems that the situations of the Prussian and Interslavic Wikipedias really were somewhat similar, apart from a few things:

The Prussian Wikipedia was rejected two times:
1. Once in 2008; which was the catalyst for the migration to an entirely independent website to continue operations
2. And again in 2016; despite the second request for Prussian that was proposed by Piteris in 2012, still being open (today marked as eligible).
Nērtiks himself did not make a banner at the top of the Prūsiska Wikipēdija like you did
Nērtiks may be unaware that this is even happening/has happened.^{[note 1]}

So what was done for Interslavic here may also work for Prussian.^{[note 2]}

Besides the fact that near the start of May of this year, the Prūsiska Wikipēdija garnered 10 articles of French gamble-spam with the wrong encoding,^{[note 3]} of which have not been deleted yet,^[1] the Prūsiska Wikipēdija seems to be OK; although it's pretty inactive these days.

Also, when I was importing articles, I added a comment at the top for some of the ones I imported with the URL of the page I imported from, however some of them have no attributions at all. None of them have the licensing information or link. I'll just take your word however, and not worry about the copyright violations. Thanks, Kxeon (talk) 23:29, 11 July 2025 (UTC)Reply

A quick export (from the independent Prussian Wikipedia) and an import here would solve the issue quickly. The Incubator is already CC BY-SA 4.0 (as you can see on the footnotes of every page), so importing would "overwrite" the copy-over edits you made and give the appropriate user their credit (in the page history). Would that be possible @MF-Warburg? Of course, we would need @Kxeon to give us a list of every article, including templates, categories, modules (if applicable) that they copied over. Also include Tigelika's imports since they did not give appropriate credit («If supplied, you must provide the name of the creator and attribution parties, a copyright notice, a license notice, a disclaimer notice, and a link to the material.»). I don't think we can do much about NawsPiteris since his "imports" (now technically creations) predate articles by the independent Wikipedia (since we can't know where they came from). Else we could also delete every article created by them, but I think the optimal solution is to import ;) — Garcez (talk) 17:24, 12 July 2025 (UTC)Reply

Thanks for the suggestion to make the lists of pages that I imported.

When I searched for "wikipedia.prusaspira.org Tū redigijja" in my history on Pale Moon, I found the search results you see down here. I removed the red links, and the ones that I checked and found that I didn't make the page on the Incubator, from the list (2 red links, 36 by NawsPiteris, and 1 by Tīgelka; 39 in total), so now I made a list of pages, where each one was probably imported by me.

I also went to my contibutions and found a few pages that weren't in my history, that I still seem to have imported:

Bansē (azzaran en Galindai)
Bansē (kāims en Galindai)
Bazilisks
Bijakciōni
Burrowas-Wheeleras transfōrmaciōni
Buttiska šīrki
Buttiskas spurglas
Bīskupaspils
Bīslaida (appi)
CAS nummeri
Citrōnis rūgtan
Coulombas tikrōmisku
Deginnis
Deklaraciōni stēisan gīmtan amzin tikrōmin
Deklaraciōni stēisan gīmtan amzin tikrōmin - ēnturs
Dināmikis ensadīnsnas
Drānzi
Drūsa (azzaran)
Elāktriskan talpan
Eridāns (gealōgija)
Erks Mānts
Farads
Farēiriska bilā
Freeciv
Galdapi (appi)
Galinda
Gallu
Gausas tikrōmisku
Gaīls aliskans
Gaīls gāndars
Gegalāi
Geltaīna kīla
Glišas rūgtan
Gāndars
Gārbas bremzi
Higgsas bozōns
Impulss
Inērcijas mōmentan
Inērcijas mōmentas tensōrs
Izwanginewīngi kīrsnas kērmens
Leītawa
Luks (mēstan)
Massis sirdan
Nabetta
Nutōns
Paskāls
Pelannas etālisku
Pellana (ōptiki)
Prūsas Grēma
Senrazgīsnas wīdiks
Separāminas stānis
Spurglāi
Strōwangs
Tirtī dināmikis ensadīnsna
Welsnas impulss
Welsnas mōmentan
Widāminan swāikstan
Šablōni:Kēmiskas sendāsenis
Šablōni:Mistan (Redirect to Šablōni:Mēstan); This template is based off of Šablōni:Tautā
Kategōrija:Barta
Kategōrija:Garēi (Redirect to Kategōrija:Garjāi)
Kategōrija:Karjangus / Karengus
Kategōrija:Kēmija
Kategōrija:Kīrnas
Kategōrija:Mackālija
Kategōrija:Mestāi / Mistāi
Kategōrija:Semba
Kategōrija:Tāutas
Andajaus (Redirect to Autrīmpus)
Andajus (Redirect to Autrīmpus)
Guddija (Redirect to Mackālija)
Jātawa (Redirect to Sūdawa)
Laītawa (Redirect to Leītawa)
Wp/prg/Luks (mīstan) (Redirect to Luks (mēstan))
Prūsas Grīma (Redirect to Prūsas Grēma)
Prūsiskan (Redirect to Prūsiska bilā)
Russija (Redirect to Mackālija)

The entire list of pages that are in my contributions, that were imported by me:

Abistiks
Adli
Adli - Angzdrin Kunnegini
Aliskans
Alnāsteini
Amellingi
Andenes
Andrōmeda
Anna Prus
Antrā dināmikis ensadīnsna
Apsi
Arkellis
Auktumma tūlisku
Baltija
Baltiska krewetti
Bansē (azzaran en Galindai)
Bansē (kāims en Galindai)
Bazilisks
Bijakciōni
Burrowas-Wheeleras transfōrmaciōni
Buttiska šīrki
Buttiskas spurglas
Bīskupaspils
Bīslaida (appi)
CAS nummeri
Citrōnis rūgtan
Coulombas tikrōmisku
Deginnis
Deklaraciōni stēisan gīmtan amzin tikrōmin
Deklaraciōni stēisan gīmtan amzin tikrōmin - ēnturs
Dināmikis ensadīnsnas
Drānzi
Drūsa (azzaran)
Elāktriskan talpan
Eridāns (gealōgija)
Erks Mānts
Farads
Farēiriska bilā
Freeciv
Galdapi (appi)
Galinda
Gallu
Gausas tikrōmisku
Gaīls aliskans
Gaīls gāndars
Gegalāi
Geltaīna kīla
Glišas rūgtan
Glōsana
Gotska Sandön
Guddamistan
Gāndars
Gārbas bremzi
Higgsas bozōns
Hilbertas plattibi
Ikurrina
Impulss
Inērcijas mōmentan
Inērcijas mōmentas tensōrs
Izwanginewīngi kīrsnas kērmens
Kaddegs
Kalpeni for
Kašūbai (tautā)
Kreinas-Milmanas gērdausenis
Krāntaws
Kurka
Kālwarnis
Kāmstis
Kērkas
Kīrsnan saiwāgarin
Kīrsnas aliskans
Kīrsnawinzus geggals
Kīrsnawinzus kērka
Kōns
Kūlgrinda
Laūkiska šīrki
Leītawa
Liguzuwinnin angzdris
Luks (mēstan)
Lukuttis
Lēcbargs
Līdi
Līkuta nāts
Līkutailappiska līpa
Līkutasis geggals
Līwa
Līwa (Paguddi)
Mackālija
Makrēli
Manx bilā
Massis sirdan
Medenīks tattarwas
Mertīns
Mikkels Klussis
Mīniks (teulōgija)
Mōlas massi
Mōls
Nabetta
Nadrāuwa
Nutōns
Nātanga
Paguddi
Pameddi
Paserrija
Paskāls
Patrīmpus
Pelannas etālisku
Pellana (ōptiki)
Pelīmaigis
Pergrūbris
Pergrūbris (dēiws)
Pergrūbris (zentlin)
Pilkeris
Pirmā dināmikis ensadīnsna
Pirmā prūsiska senskisnā
Prastasis azzis
Prastasis kaddegs
Prēigara
Prūsas Grēma
Pāitaran
Pēnpala
Pīkli
Pōwurmisku
Relaciōni
Rāistanpils
Rānkaskugis
Rīzlis
Rūgtines rūgtan
Sasnā
Sasnīnai
Saūlis wītra
Senrazgīsnas wīdiks
Separāminas stānis
Skallawa
Slidenīks
Spurglāi
Steineras gērdausenis
Strōwangs
Stāi prastai arkelli
Sōnants
Tirtī dināmikis ensadīnsna
Tāwe Nūsan
Tīrpsnas temperatūri
Tīrts Katekismus
Ulinsnā prei Rēides azzaran
Undasklakēi
Walskā
Welsnas impulss
Welsnas mōmentan
Widāminan swāikstan
Wilhelms Wīns
Wilkazukkai
Wilnis
Wladimīrs Toporōws
Wīns
Wūksteniks
Wūksteniks (azzaran)
Wūrmiwinzus geggals
Wūrmiwinzus kērka
Zarātiskai
Zinguris
Zirgūni
Zirgūni (appi)
Āukels
Škurs
Šīrkis
Šablōni:Kēmiskas sendāsenis
Šablōni:Mistan (Redirect to Šablōni:Mēstan); This template is based off of Šablōni:Tautā
Kategōrija:Barta
Kategōrija:Garēi
Kategōrija:Karjangus / Karengus
Kategōrija:Kēmija
Kategōrija:Kīrnas
Kategōrija:Mackālija
Kategōrija:Mestāi / Mistāi
Kategōrija:Semba
Kategōrija:Tāutas
Andajaus (Redirect to Autrīmpus)
Andajus (Redirect to Autrīmpus)
Guddija (Redirect to Mackālija)
Jātawa (Redirect to Sūdawa)
Laītawa (Redirect to Leītawa)
Wp/prg/Luks (mīstan) (Redirect to Luks (mēstan))
Prūsas Grīma (Redirect to Prūsas Grēma)
Prūsiskan (Redirect to Prūsiska bilā)
Russija (Redirect to Mackālija)

And so, this is the full list of pages that were ever imported to the Incubator by me (excluding redirects):

Hopefully, those lists are correct. There are so many though, that I'm not 100% sure. They probably are. Kxeon (talk) 15:42, 13 July 2025 (UTC)Reply

↑ Special:AllPages. Prūsiska Wikipēdija

↑ The link to the Incubator at the bottom of the home page was added by me in September 2024, and it might be overreaching if I somehow added the banner myself apart from adding that link to the Incubator at the home page. So I don't. Plus the fact that I don't even know how. I also have no idea how he'll feel if I told him. I don't want to ruin anything.
↑ Assuming we can get Nērtiks on board. If not, then unless it's clear that it's not overstepping, we need to find another solution.
↑ Possibly Windows-1252?

This is getting confusing here with who replies to what plus footnotes. To me the issue here is: was the independent wiki "forked" but nobody is working on it now here? Then let's delete the pages here in order not to have a bad copy. --MF-W {a, b} 17:57, 12 July 2025 (UTC)Reply

@MF-Warburg: What I understood from it is:

1. There was (10y+ ago) an independent Prussian Wikipedia, hosted at what I'll call "server1". It seems that this server1 suffered a data loss, but not before having some contents of it copied over Wp/prg (NawsPiteris by mid-2021). Before the data loss, it seems that server1 was relatively active, judging by Nertiks' comment "[sic] We have 6 authors who write articles more or less regulary."

2. Then the wiki was reestablished at what I'll call "server2". This seems to have happened in 2021~. Contents of server1 were "restored" (recreated manually?) into server2 and/or (some of) the contents were here and they copied over there (I do think the first option is more probable). As Kxeon stated, nowadays there are only them and a user called "WūranArtīkelinRedigītajs" active in server2, but most of the articles themselves were written long ago in server1.

3. Tigelka and Kxeon "imported" articles from server2 to Wp/prg. Kxeon was probably not aware that they could be breaking the license terms. Tigelka seems to have been aware, since they left a link to the license in their edit reasons and links to the article copied (except appropriate credit was not given). — Garcez (talk) 03:34, 13 July 2025 (UTC)Reply

And where do people want to contribute now? I think the first question to be solved is not about whether pages were correctly copied, but whether wiki work will continue here or on server2. -- MF-W {a, b} 12:54, 13 July 2025 (UTC)Reply

Considering the fact that only @Kxeon is actually active on both wikis, I guess this is up to them to tell us :P

It also seems that some communities are averse to contributing to server2 because it uses Sambian (the one revived) and not "Common Prussian" (or Pomesanian?). But I'm not an expert on Prussian. Anyways, this technically would not be a problem here since we can and we allow support for multiple dialects. — Garcez (talk) 03:33, 14 July 2025 (UTC)Reply

Seems that you understood me correctly. However, for some reason I feel that I should say some more things too, as there is more to say.

Nērtiks started to edit again from 31 January—7 February 2025, after I asked him to add ParserFunctions, and he attempted to, then ran into trouble that broke the wiki for a little bit, then managed to unsuccessfully add it on 30 January.

After the 14 edits he made in that timespan, he stopped again. Maybe he's too busy to edit (which checks out, he said he'd be making a new prussian dictionary in the spring)?

Also, it seems that the Prūsiska Wikipēdija was forgotten by Nērtiks for a while. I guessed this from the fact that I had to notify Nērtiks on 1 February, that the URLs on Prusaspīra's websites to the Prūsiska Wikipēdija, was still linking to their old domain at wikipedia.prusai.org, and it was even still hosted there (until 2020?). (Their move to prusaspira.org was probably what destroyed all their data)

On top of that, Google not listing the Prūsiska Wikipēdija in their search results, and the fact that the links on Prusaspīra's websites were dead and outdated for a long time, may have also impeded its discoverability.

Considering how nobody has registered other than Nērtiks and me, I'm not even sure if that many people, or anybody (apart from Prusaspirā) even knew the Prūsiska Wikipēdija was even still alive, just moved to Prusaspīra's new domain.

Because of all this, it looks like the Prūsiska Wikipēdija has had a pretty rough time these past few years. Currently, it is inactive, with only two users registered, as well as being relatively hard to find, so it's harder for it to get users too. Not the best situation for a wiki to be in. Kxeon (talk) 21:49, 13 July 2025 (UTC)Reply

Restart Dalmatian test project

Latest comment: 3 days ago4 comments3 people in discussion

I am trying to restart dalmatian wikipedia test project but it say dont have valid code but code for dalmatian language is dlm i am new here so i dont know much how this works i just want start writing articles if possible Vigurichteodoro (talk) 21:02, 27 June 2025 (UTC)Reply

It's not possible because Dalmatian is an extinct language. New Wikipedia projects in extinct languages are not allowed. --MF-W {a, b} 16:56, 28 June 2025 (UTC)Reply

its "extinction" is very disputed thing, more of mythology than proven fact, is there way to prove language is not extinct? Vigurichteodoro (talk) 20:34, 28 June 2025 (UTC)Reply

@Vigurichteodoro: Yes, you must prove it mainly to SIL's ISO 639-3 and/or Ethnologue. Other sources may be used but mostly SIL's ISO 639-3 and eventually Ethnologue (having SIL's ISO 639-3 approval is certainly most important). — Garcez (talk) 17:41, 12 July 2025 (UTC)Reply

Redlinked "MediaWiki:Lang" pages

Latest comment: 3 days ago5 comments4 people in discussion

I accidentally stumbled upon Module:Wp/qdp/MediaWikiLang; and by extension Wp/qdp when searching for "ko-kp" on the Incubator, on Google.

I also found that there are quite a few redlinked pages that aren't supposed to be redlinked. Maybe you should create them?

Kxeon (talk) 02:07, 2 July 2025 (UTC)Reply

@User:Jon Harald Søby: is this needed? --MF-W {a, b} 08:48, 2 July 2025 (UTC)Reply

@MF-Warburg: Yeah. I'll create those now. Jon Harald Søby (talk) 19:32, 7 July 2025 (UTC)Reply

... huh. Either I missed one or Dolgan (MediaWiki:Lang/dlg) was added since I sent this notice. I don't know which one it is but it probably needs to be made regardless. Sorry if I did miss it. Kxeon (talk) 21:51, 8 July 2025 (UTC)Reply