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• English: Feel free to ask anything below, preferably in English or one of the other main world languages. See Incubator:Administrators to request access or to rename your account. See Help:Contents or Help:Manual for help in general.
• Français: N'hésitez pas à poser une question ci-dessous, de préférence en anglais ou dans une autre des principales langues internationales. Pour récupérer votre compte utilisateur ou demander son renommage, voir Incubator:Administrators. Voir Help:Contents/fr ou Help:Manual/fr pour l'aide en général.
• Español: No dude en preguntar algo en esta página, preferiblemente en inglés o en otro de los principales idiomas internacionales. Para recuperar su cuenta de usuario o cambiar su nombre de usuario, ver Incubator:Administrators. Leer Help:Contents/es o Help:Manual/es para ayuda de carácter general.
• Português: Fique à vontade para perguntar seja o que for nesta página, preferencialmente em inglês ou em outro idioma dentre as principais línguas do mundo. Para recuperar sua conta de usuário, ou trocar seu nome de usuário, ver Incubator:Administrators. Veja também Help:Contents/pt ou Help:Manual/pt para ajuda em geral.
• Deutsch: Fühl dich frei, hier drunter irgendwas zu fragen, wenn möglich auf Englisch oder einer anderen Weltsprache. Um Access zu bekommen oder deinen Account umzubenennen siehe Incubator:Administrators. Für Hilfe allgemein siehe Help:Contents/de bzw. Help:Manual/de.
• Русский: Смело задавайте свои вопросы ниже, желательно на английском или любом другом из наиболее распространённых языков мира. См. Incubator:Administrators чтобы подать запрос на статус администратора или запросить переименование своего аккаунта. Если нужна помощь, см. Help:Contents/ru или Help:Manual/ru.
• 中文（简体）：您可以随意讨论下列任意事情，建议使用英语及其他世界上的主要语言。前往Incubator:Administrators可以申请成为管理员或重命名账户。前往Help:目录或Help:手册可以获得帮助。
• 日本語(機械翻訳)：下の項目は、英語または他の主要な世界の言語のいずれかでお気軽にお問い合わせください。アクセスを要求するか、アカウントの名前を変更するには、Incubator:Administratorsを参照してください。一般的なヘルプについては、ヘルプ:目次またはヘルプ:マニュアルを参照してください。
• Bân-lâm-gú: Lí ē-sái tī ē-té sûi-chāi thó-lūn jīm-hô tāi-chì, kiàn-gī ēng Eng-gí kap kî-thaⁿ sè-kài siōng ê chú-iàu gí-giân. Chiân-óng Incubator:Administrators ē-tàng sin-chhéng chiâⁿ-chò koán-lí jîn-oân ia̍h-sī tiông-sin thè lí-ê kháu-chō hō-miâ. Chiân-óng Help:Contents kap Help:Manual ē-tàng tit-tio̍h pang-chān.

• Esperanto: Demandu laŭvole en ĉi tiu paĝo, precipe anglalingve, sed ankaŭ en alia el la plej gravaj lingvoj en la mondo. Por rehavi vian uzantokonton, aŭ ŝanĝi vian uzantonomon, vidu Incubator:Administrators. Vidu ankaŭ Help:Contents/eo aŭ Help:Manual/eo por ĝenerala helpo.
• Українська: Сміливо запитуйте нижче, бажано англійською або будь-якою іншою широко поширеною мовою світу. Див. Incubator:Administrators для подання запиту на статус адміністратора або для запиту на перейменування облікового запису користувача. Якщо потрібна допомога, див. Help:Contents/uk або Help:Manual/uk.
• Pārsīg: sōhišn ī āzād ī harw čīš ku xwāhēd, Šāyēd pad Engelīsīg ayāb any uzwān ī bundātīgīh andar gēhān.Incubator:Administrators rāy abar pahikārišn ayāb abāznāmīdišn mar-tān ē wēn. Help:Contents/pal ayāb Help:Manual/palrāy abar ayārišn amaragānīhā.
• Ελληνικά:Μη διστάσετε να ρωτήσετε τίποτα, κατά προτίμηση στην αγγλική γλώσσα ή σε μία από τις άλλες κύριες γλώσσες του κόσμου. Δείτε Incubator:Administrators για να ζητήσετε να σας μετονομάσουν το λογαριασμό σας. Δείτε Help:Contents/el ή Help:Manual/el για να βοήθηθείτε σε γενικές γραμμές. Καλή συνέχεια!
• हिन्दी: नीचे कुछ भी पूछने के लिए अपने आप को आजाद समझें, और अंग्रेज़ी या विश्व के अन्य मुख्य भाषाओं का उपयोग करें। प्रबन्धक अधिकार हेतु Incubator:Administrators देखें। सामान्य सहायता हेतु Help:Contents/hi या Help:Manual/hi देखें।
• ไทย: คุณสามารถถามอะไรก็ได้ด้านล่างนี้อย่างอิสระ โดยควรจะถามเป็นภาษาอังกฤษหรือภาษาหลักของโลกภาษาหนึ่ง ดูที่ Incubator:Administrators เพื่อขอเข้าถึงหรือเปลี่ยนชื่อบัญชีของคุณ ดูที่ Help:เนื้อหา หรือ Help:คู่มือ สำหรับความช่วยเหลือทั่วไป
• 한국어: 아래 항목에서 영어 또는 세계의 다른 주요 언어로 아무 것이나 물어보세요. 접근을 요청하거나 계정명을 변경하려면 Incubator:Administrators를 참조하세요. 일반적인 도움에 대해서는 Help:Contents이나 Help:Manual을 참조하세요.
• 粵語：閣下想喺道討論乜嘢都得。建議用英文同埋其他主要語言。申請做管理員或者申請改名請去Incubator:Administrators。想獲得幫助請去Help:Contents或者Help:Manual（未有粵語版，歡迎幫手翻譯）。
• Қазақша: Сұрақтарыңызды қысылмай қоя беріңіз. Сұрақ ағылшын немес басқа да кең таралған тілде болғаны дұрыс. Өз аккаунтыңызды ауыстыру үшін немесе әкімші дәрежесін алу үшін мына бетті қараңыз. Көмек керек болса Help:Contents/kk немес Help:Manual/kk беттерін қараңыз.
• Lingua Franca Nova: No esita fa demandas a su, preferable en engles o un de la otra linguas xef de la mundo. Vide Incubator:Administrators per demanda per asede o per renomi tua conta. Vide Help:Contents/lfn o Help:Manual/lfn per aida jeneral.
• ⵜⴰⵎⴰⵣⵉⵖⵜ: ⴰⴷ ⵓⵔ ⵜⵔⴽⴽⴻⴽⴷ ⴳ ⵓⵙⵇⵙⵉ ⵅⴼ ⴽⵔⴰ ⵏ ⵜⵖⴰⵡⵙⴰ ⴳ ⵉⵣⴷⴷⴰⵔ, ⵢⵓⴼ ⵙ ⵜⵏⴳⵍⵉⵣⵉⵜ ⵏⵉⵖ ⴽⵔⴰ ⵏ ⵜⵓⵜⵍⴰⵢⵜ ⵜⴰⴳⵔⴰⵖⵍⴰⵏⵜ. ⴱⴰⵛ ⴰⴷ ⵜⵙⵙⴰⵖⵓⵍⴷ ⴰⵎⵉⴹⴰⵏ ⵏⵏⵎ/ⴽ ⵏⵖ ⴰⴷ ⴰⵙ ⵜⴰⵍⵙⴷ ⵉⵙⵎ, ⵥⵔ Incubator:Administrators. ⵥⵔ Help:Contents/fr ⵏⵖ Help:Manual ⵉ ⵜⵡⵉⵙⵉ ⵙ ⵓⵎⴰⵜⴰ.

• بلوچی: ایدا آزاتانه توانیت وتي نزر ئانه بِه انگریزی یا جهانی دیگه مزنین زبانان بنویسیت. ئنکوباٹور ئی مدیران ئا بگیندیت و ریکویست دهیت په وتي کارمرزوکین نامی تغیرداتین ئی خاتیرا. یا Help:Contents یا Help:Manual ئا بگنیدیت په عمومین سوال و سوجان.

• کھوار:پسہ کھوار زبانا یا خور کیہ زبانا سوال بشار گانیکو بومی، مزید پسہ. Incubator:Administrators یا ایڈیٹراننتے درخاس کوری تان یوزر نامو بدیل کوریکو بومی وا نوغ کھاتہ دی کھولاو کوریکو بومی. Help:Contents یاHelp:Manual مزید مدد دی گانیکو بومی.

• বাংলা: আপনি নীচে যে কোন কিছু জিজ্ঞাসা করতে পারেন। ইংরেজিতে বা বিশ্বের অন্য যে কোন একটি প্রধান ভাষায় জিজ্ঞাসা করুন। কোন অধিকারের জন্য বা আপনার অ্যাকাউন্ট পুনঃনামকরণের জন্য Incubator:Administrators দেখুন। সাধারণ সাহায্যের জন্য Help:Contents বা Help:Manual দেখুন।
• नेपाली: तल केहि पनि सोध्न तपाई स्वतन्त्र सम्झिनुहोस र अंग्रेजी अथवा विश्वको अन्य मुख्य भाषाहरूको उपयोग गर्नु होस । प्रबन्धक अधिकारको लागि इनक्यूबेटर प्रबन्धक हेर्नुहोस । सामान्य मद्दतको लागि Help:Contents/ne अथवा Help:Manual/ne हेर्नुहोस ।
• ᱥᱟᱱᱛᱟᱲᱤ ᱞᱟᱛᱟᱨ ᱨᱮ ᱡᱟᱦᱟᱱᱟᱜ ᱜᱮ ᱤᱸᱞᱤᱥ ᱵᱟᱝᱠᱷᱟᱱ ᱫᱷᱟᱹᱨᱛᱤ ᱨᱮᱱᱟᱜ ᱢᱩᱲᱩᱛ ᱯᱟᱹᱨᱥᱤ ᱛᱮ ᱠᱩᱞᱤ ᱨᱮᱱᱟᱜ ᱯᱷᱩᱨᱜᱹᱞ ᱢᱮᱱᱟᱜ ᱛᱟᱢᱟ ᱾ ᱟᱢᱟᱜ ᱟᱠᱟᱶᱱᱴ ᱧᱩᱛᱩᱢ ᱟᱹᱨᱩ ᱟᱨ ᱥᱮᱴᱮᱨ ᱞᱟᱹᱜᱤᱫ Incubator:Administrators ᱧᱮᱞ ᱢᱮ ᱾ ᱜᱚᱲᱚ ᱦᱚᱪᱚ ᱞᱟᱹᱜᱤᱫ Help:Contents ᱵᱟᱝᱠᱷᱟᱱ Help:Manual ᱧᱮᱞ ᱢᱮ ᱾

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Current events   [edit]

• 2 August 2018 Santali Wikipedia has been created.
• 2 August 2018 (from Beta Wikiversity): Chinese Wikiversity has been created.
• 8 June 2018 Pashto Wikivoyage has been created.
• 8 June 2018 Sakha Wikiquote has been created.
• 8 June 2018 Bengali Wikivoyage has been created.
• 8 June 2018 (from Multilingual Wikisource): Piedmontese Wikisource has been created.

Template Translation for Incubator

I am unable to translate this template: fr:Modèle:Infobox Graphème into english and khowar. Can anybody translate this from french language to english. This template is necessary for creating pages of six uniquely pronounced special characters of Khowar Language, Please translate this into english so that i'll translate this into Khowar language. This template is only available in French Wikipedia. Regards -- RAChitrali 01:41, 26 April 2017 (UTC)

I'll try to tackle in the next day or two. What I think I'd like to do is this:

• You create a template page in the Khowar test where you would like this to go. (You can create it with simple text like "placeholder".)
• I will import the template from French Wikipedia, then translate it in place into English.
• Then you translate it in place to Khowar.

OK? StevenJ81 (talk) 14:02, 26 April 2017 (UTC)

@Rachitrali:  Doing...  Didn't hear from you. Imported to User:StevenJ81/Modèle:Infobox Graphème along with a documentation subpage. This will take a while; please be patient. StevenJ81 (talk) 13:49, 28 April 2017 (UTC)

I want to create in khowar like this[1] Thanks --RAChitrali 15:56, 28 April 2017 (UTC)

@Rachitrali: Do you still want this? StevenJ81 (talk) 14:49, 1 September 2017 (UTC)

@StevenJ81:, yes sir--RAChitrali 08:58, 25 September 2017 (UTC)

How to write from right to the left

Hello, I try to help the Morocan Arabic Wiktionary to start. They ask me to help them to import some modules from the French Wiktionary in order they use the same structure as the one on this wiki. I did it. However, I do not know how to "enable" the RTL for this wiki. I made a test on my user page but it writes LTR. How to switch to RTL? Thanks in advance for your comments. Pamputt (talk) 09:09, 1 May 2018 (UTC)

In the short run, you can use the following tags:

<div class="mw-content-rtl" lang="ar">

***content***

</div>

and things should work. On user pages, unless you set the language of the user page to a RTL language (ask if you want to do that), that's the only way to do it. That also works in the tests, but isn't the best way in the longer term, unless you have a bidirectional test.

To that end, calling MF-Warburg. The Moroccan Arabic Wikipedia (Wp/ary) defaults to LTR. Why wouldn't ary default to RTL? Is there a way for me to fix that, or does it need a phabricator? StevenJ81 (talk) 14:03, 1 May 2018 (UTC)

Is the language known to MediaWiki, i.e. exported from TWN? If not, that might be the problem. --MF-W {a, b} 14:38, 1 May 2018 (UTC)

Seems to be. But if you try to choose it in the Universal Language Selector, it comes up as "Magribi", which means that it's defaulting to ary-Latn. So for now pages will have to be labeled with the div tag if they're in ary-Arab, I guess. StevenJ81 (talk) 14:57, 1 May 2018 (UTC)

Hello @MF-Warburg, StevenJ81: Unfortunately, there's no ary-Arab and ary-Latn, but only ary (Magribi); in this case is it possible to switch the editing from LTR to RTL ? Thank you in advance, --Reda benkhadra (talk) 23:08, 19 May 2018 (UTC)

@Reda benkhadra, MF-Warburg, Amire80: Let me clarify what I meant.

If you look at translatewiki:Portal:ary, you will see that at least at translatewiki.net—therefore on all of the WMF projects—Moroccan Arabic (Magribi, langcode ary) is specified as being in the Latin alphabet. De facto, it's ary-Latn. And therefore it's a LTR language. That portal on translatewiki.net dates to 2008. Who decided that it should be this way I don't know, but that's how it is at the present time. In the system, it's going to be a LTR language, because in the system, it's written in the Latin alphabet.

So what is there to do about this? I've called in both MF-W and Amire80 because I need their help with this.

Step 1. We would need to modify translatewiki.net so that it supports both a Latin-alphabet variant ("ary-Latn") and an Arabic alphabet variant ("ary-Arab", a RTL version).

• As part of this process, I guess all interface translations currently in "ary" would be moved to "ary-Latn". Then you would need to start creating interface translations in "ary-Arab". Once 13% of the MediaWiki core message group has been translated, those translations would be downloaded to WMF projects, and WMF projects can start recognizing "ary-Arab" (or "مغربي", if Google translate got it right) as a legitimate choice.

Step 2. We would need to determine if the "ary" test projects here should allow "ary-Arab", "ary-Latn" or both—and if both, what should the default be? Until fairly recently, nearly all the content was in Latn. I gather the current editors have mostly been changing that, and since I haven't heard any complaints from the community, I assume the community is OK with that. But for there to be an official change, there should be an explicit community discussion on a page of the test project.

• Here's what I'm not so sure about: Is there really a way to change the default coding of the test before Step 1 above is complete? Could the default code of the test be set temporarily as "ar/ara", for example? I don't know the answer to that question. (MF-W?)

I'd like to share one other point. As you well know, the community working on the "Algerian Arabic" projects (at Wx/arq) is really trying to help the projects become true Maghrebi projects, and not just Algerian. Before you spend a large amount of time worrying about the "ary" projects, I'd strongly encourage you to consider whether the best approach wouldn't simply be to merge the Moroccan and Algerian projects together now.

StevenJ81 (talk) 16:09, 23 May 2018 (UTC)

@StevenJ81: Thank you for your reply. Well, the problem was from the beggining, someone decided to make ary in Latin but without any consensus or at least consultation, that's why I'm proposing in this case to make versions of Wikimedia projects in ary in both characters (Arab and Latin), thus both LTR and RTL need to be available while editing, by doing so we'll satisfy all parties and avoid potential problems and more discussions. Hoping that @MF-Warburg: and @Amire80: can help us in the realization of this. Concerning the Maghrebi version, I'm in contact with our friends from Algeria and Tunisia to discuss what can we do to group the efforts and other possible alternatives. Cordially, --Reda benkhadra (talk) 02:09, 31 May 2018 (UTC)

Inviting help to clean up errors that will appear when Remex replaces Tidy

Calling @MF-Warburg, Hydriz, Ooswesthoesbes because I want your input specifically, but all are welcome to reply:

I have mentioned this issue on this page in the past; see, for example, /Archive/2017#Wikimedia is getting rid of Tidy. And, of course, this is announced nearly every week in Tech News, which is regularly posted to I:POST. But we're getting a lot closer now. I have done some cleanup in Incubator namespace, but the tests still have many, many pages that will be affected. After all, inter alia,

• People creating tests here are not necessarily expert at wikisyntax

  At that, people have copied a lot of code here that has been acceptable up to now, but will no longer be

• There are many old, dormant tests here

So I wonder if we shouldn't invite User:Xaosflux to bring his bot Fluxbot here to do some cleanup. I can't tell if that bot can handle every possible type of high- and medium-priority Lint error. Still, it would start to eat into the massive amount of Lint cleanup we probably need to do here. Thoughts? StevenJ81 (talk) 17:40, 1 May 2018 (UTC)

I'm not an expert in this either. Checking the LintErrors, I'd say the normal priority errors do not tend to result in problems. Therefore, I propose that we invite the bot to focus on the high priority errors. --OWTB (talk) 18:03, 1 May 2018 (UTC)

Hi, I can not solve all errors, but are willing to work on them - will certainly focus on "high" and "medium" first, if there are any easy to solve low's they can be done as well. I filed a bot request at Incubator:Administrators#Fluxbot. Xaosflux (talk) 18:11, 1 May 2018 (UTC)

Thank you for replying so quickly. I'd leave prioritization in your hands, seeing as you know far more about this than we do. Let me just wait until a few more people respond. StevenJ81 (talk) 18:26, 1 May 2018 (UTC)

I'm missing the list of low priority tags replacement. I believe tags such as <font> and <center> are obsolete now, but I have no idea how to correctly put them in wikitext now which will render the same result. Will they keep functioning after the transfer? --OWTB (talk) 09:05, 2 May 2018 (UTC)

@Ooswesthoesbes: I suspect the "center" will be the hardest on editors, like font it is replaced with css directives: text-align: center; and font: ...... Here is an example of centering with both styles sandbox, these appear to still be working. Xaosflux (talk) 11:35, 2 May 2018 (UTC)

That looks rather devious. It is also very unreadable in the wikisyntax editor. I think it would be better to let them stay if they will still continue to function, unless a better solution is found (templates might work, but it requires prefixed versions here, which will be a lot of work...). --OWTB (talk) 11:44, 2 May 2018 (UTC)

I'm not the one making decisions here :D font/center deprecation are "low" because in common situations they still work. In more complex situations (mutli level nested elements for example) they may not produce the desired output. Future parser upgrades may further break these as well. In short, we don't need to worry about most of them immediately, but a migration plan should be getting considered. Xaosflux (talk) 12:43, 2 May 2018 (UTC)

I think the easiest way is to implement a template like "Template:Center", which can then be copied to all the tests who require such a template. But I have no idea whether this is easy to implement. --OWTB (talk) 13:05, 2 May 2018 (UTC)

That part is still a mess for sure, enwiki has worked on this some (see w:en:Template:center) but notably there are challenges related to mobile browser users as well. Xaosflux (talk) 14:19, 2 May 2018 (UTC)

N.B. I don't plan on working on this type of mitigation with a bot in the near future - and certainly not until something very stable is ready. Xaosflux (talk) 14:20, 2 May 2018 (UTC)

Sure, as long as the high priority things can be fixed, we are in the clear for now. The tag replacements is something for the future, though it can't hurt to think about it a little already :) --OWTB (talk) 14:26, 2 May 2018 (UTC)

Is there a way for people to tag a page (or test) not to be fixed if someone doesn't want it fixed? (I don't know why anyone would want that. But the test communities are autonomous to some extent, so I think I ought to give the option if it is possible.) StevenJ81 (talk) 14:29, 2 May 2018 (UTC)

A bot can usually simply add a piece of code that skips pages from certain namespaces, I believe there is also such an exemption for prefixes. At least pages between f.e. Wp/abb/ZZZ and Wp/abd can be skipped using code to prevent Wp/abc from being affected. --OWTB (talk) 14:32, 2 May 2018 (UTC)

Most automated/semi-automated bot processes will respect the use of {{Bots}}. For edits made under manual control, it would be up to the editor (just as if they made the edit normally). For example, when I run Linter cleanups with Fluxbot, most are done in a semi-automatic mode and nobots checking is done first - for ones that are very explicit and using automatic mode bots is always checked. For some edits I use fluxbot interactively/manually in which case it is not. When I work on Linter type errors on anything that is very unusual (for example a Lua module) I generally would not use the bot account, but mine so that people know it was very explictly done and it would appear on watchlists/etc. Xaosflux (talk) 15:04, 2 May 2018 (UTC)

Fair enough. We can (and should) keep discussing details and questions here, though I'm sure that overall this will be fine. Unless I hear an objection, I will flag you on Friday. Between now and then, let's just make sure the summary I am placing just below is correct, so everyone is clear about what will happen next. (Please edit if I have things wrong, incomplete, what have you.) StevenJ81 (talk) 22:31, 2 May 2018 (UTC)

Should we actually provide the option of letting test communities opt-out of this lint error cleanup? I don't see any benefits gained from leaving the errors unresolved. We should proceed with the cleanup and if lint errors are re-introduced in the future, we can then resolve them manually and provide the necessary explanation to the user. --Hydriz (talk) 05:19, 3 May 2018 (UTC)

Changed. See below. StevenJ81 (talk) 12:55, 3 May 2018 (UTC)

By the way, Xaosflux, I don't actually think it's likely you'll find protected pages needing fixing. but if you do, let us know, and we'll change the protection to allow that. StevenJ81 (talk) 12:55, 3 May 2018 (UTC)

Added a sitenotice. StevenJ81 (talk) 13:28, 3 May 2018 (UTC)

Flagged bot. StevenJ81 (talk) 20:26, 4 May 2018 (UTC)

Summary of HTML cleanup by User:Xaosflux and his bot Fluxbot

To the best of our knowledge and ability, no page will be changed materially. The goal of the process is simply to make sure that all pages continue to render as they do now when the HTML rendering engine is changed in June.

• The objective is to clean up as many high- and medium-priority Lint errors as possible. (Low-priority errors may also be addressed, as time and effort permit.) Many of these can be handled routinely by the bot, and in order to minimize personal notifications and disruption to Special:RecentChanges, we would like as many of the errors as possible to be cleaned by the bot account.

  You can always see what the bot has done by ticking "bot" when viewing Recent Changes.

• Some complex fixes will be done by Xaosflux using his regular account.
• Fixing these errors is mandatory for all pages except in the User: namespace and the User talk: namespace.

  While we also strongly encourage all users to allow the bot to fix their userpages and user talk pages, we will not force this on you. If you wish not to have a userpage or user talk page changed, place the template {{Bots}} on the page.

• We don't guarantee this will fix 100% of the problems. But seeing as there are over 3,000 high-priority errors and over 10,000 medium-priority errors here, we think this will help us make a big dent, in any event.
• The bot's activity will begin on Saturday, May 5 (UTC).

If you have any questions, please ask them below. StevenJ81 (talk), on behalf of the Incubator administrator team. 22:31, 2 May 2018 (UTC)

Questions and Answers

1. Can a report be generated for edge cases that cannot be resolved automatically by the bot, or will the bot operator be resolving it manually by himself? --Hydriz (talk) 05:22, 3 May 2018 (UTC)

   That makes perfect sense, I'd say. --OWTB (talk) 08:42, 3 May 2018 (UTC)

   First to be clear, I am happy to help resolve any thing I can, however I am nowhere near able to resolve all issues. The list of outstanding errors appears at Special:LintErrors. Xaosflux (talk) 13:22, 3 May 2018 (UTC)

2. Does opting out really mean the appearance of the lay-out doesn't change, while the bot edits change the appearance? If not, then this would just be a regular wiki maintenance, such as the historical move of "Wikt/"-tests to "Wt/", to which objection makes no sense in my eyes. I think that any tests opting out will only come crawling back to be fixed when errors occur, so this will just cause work to have to be done twice or even more times... --OWTB (talk) 08:42, 3 May 2018 (UTC)

   I suspect you're right. Maybe we should not allow opting out for full tests. (Thoughts?) I think if an individual wants the bot not to touch his/her user page or user talk page, ill-advised as that might be, I'm not prepared to argue the point. StevenJ81 (talk) 12:44, 3 May 2018 (UTC)

   Yes, a user page is not something that would be visible. Imagine a test near approval opting out and becoming a mess. That's not something I believe Wikimedia wants to advertise... --OWTB (talk) 12:47, 3 May 2018 (UTC)

   Fair. OK. I'll change the text above. StevenJ81 (talk) 12:48, 3 May 2018 (UTC)

   Done Note: Xaosflux, I suppose {{Bots}} on a page in a different name space may force you to look at a page manually. But policy will be that these should be fixed anyway. StevenJ81 (talk) 12:54, 3 May 2018 (UTC)

Cyrillic Italian

And if we create a wikipedia in italian, but with the cyrillic alphabet? — The preceding unsigned comment was added by 37.117.186.23 (discussion • contribs) 18:13, 1 May 2018 (UTC).

This does not meet the current Language proposal policy, and past efforts have been rejected and moved to Incubator Plus. If you are interested, I suggest you work there. StevenJ81 (talk) 18:22, 1 May 2018 (UTC)

Pessoal, na língua italiana sempre se usa o alfabeto latino. Não tem como transliterar a língua italiana do alfabeto latino para o cirílico. Esse alfabeto é usado nas línguas russa, bielorrussa, macedônia, tártara, sérvia, buriata e outras línguas eslavas.

Leonardo José Raimundo (talk) 22:45, 3 May 2018 (UTC)

test wikipedia activity not working

Currently test wikipedia activity is not working. Johnkn63 (talk) 11:44, 9 May 2018 (UTC)

Yes, we are aware of this problem. It has been communicated to the programmer who is responsible for it. --OWTB (talk) 12:54, 9 May 2018 (UTC)

It has been fixed now, so it should be working as usual again :) --OWTB (talk) 14:58, 9 May 2018 (UTC)

Yes, it is working again. Thank you very much!Johnkn63 (talk) 15:10, 9 May 2018 (UTC)

Project proposal

Hello, I just heard about Wikimedia's 'incubator' today, I've been working on a wiki project for years and I'd like to know if anyone here has advice or might want to join the project.

The idea is based on a wiki for all potential solutions, for each problem, in any area. -Even conceptual 'areas' like academic concepts, or psychology.

I've also made plans to use hypertext icons to let people drop things like debates or notes anywhere they'd like in bodies of text, so they can expose myths and fallacies, (and go on interesting tangents).

There's a number of other tools like that, such as our 'layer system', they're all simple and doable, but to make this, and make it run well, we need a community of developers. There's a small group now, contributing code on our Tuleap account, but we need more help. We are genuinely working towards the fulfillment of "free knowledge for all". -Our goal is to connect people with all the highest rated solutions on Earth.

Thanks to our partnership with Media Island International we have 501(c)3 nonprofit status, and we have communities that want to start trying out our network, but we're struggling to get this wiki online and we could really use some help. -and advice. I should also mention that if WikiMedia wanted to be a part of this or endorse it that would be a huge blessing for us. We truly just want people to see all their options side by side so we can all start making better decisions because at the end of the day, there's no such thing as 'evil', there's just people, and the decisions they make.

We have a simplistic demo on our predevelopment site Lawgen.org -and we can be reached at TheLawgenProject@gmail.com

Thank you for your consideration and time — The preceding unsigned comment was added by 2601:603:5100:4a60:854c:3868:8df2:4450 (discussion • contribs) 14:53, 13 May 2018 (UTC).

Expand to see contents:

This is a borderline reasonable request, so I am collapsing it rather than deleting it. But the appropriate place in Wikimedia to propose a project of this type would be Proposals for new projects on Meta. StevenJ81 (talk) 14:00, 14 May 2018 (UTC)

Marathi projects

Sir i helping and improving Wikipedia from Marathi language which is my mother tongue and i want to help in future also... To contribute more things. Please reply me about my profile for incubator Thank you XxxxRager (talk) 17:06, 15 May 2018 (UTC)

Answered at I:RST. StevenJ81 (talk) 21:29, 15 May 2018 (UTC)

Import template to Shy

Moved from Incubator talk:Main Page. StevenJ81 (talk) 13:07, 23 May 2018 (UTC)

Hi all, i have no right to import templates from the other wikis. So can someone who have this right to help me to import wikt:fr:Modèle:nom langue for the Wt/shy. I can do it by my self but i have no rights for this. thank you.--Reda Kerbouche (talk) 10:32, 19 May 2018 (UTC)

And this wikt:fr:Modèle:T; wikt:fr:Modèle:S; wikt:fr:Modèle:trad-; wikt:fr:Modèle:trad--; wikt:fr:Modèle:trad-début; wikt:fr:Modèle:trad-fin.--Reda Kerbouche (talk) 11:42, 19 May 2018 (UTC)

Reda, I will do it :D Pamputt (talk) 15:24, 19 May 2018 (UTC)

@Pamputt: thank you very much ;).--Reda Kerbouche (talk) 16:36, 19 May 2018 (UTC)

Il faut se rappeler d'aussi importer les modules Lua en plus des modèles. (En plus de préfixer les transclusions) :) Ebe123 (^{Talkabout it}|_contribs) 22:23, 21 May 2018 (UTC)

Use Bot to upload words in incubator

Moved from Incubator talk:Main Page. StevenJ81 (talk) 13:07, 23 May 2018 (UTC)

Hi, I want to use a bot to upload words in the incubator, to go faster then now. is it allow to use a bot ? what a have to do to get permission ?--Reda Kerbouche (talk) 19:09, 19 May 2018 (UTC)

We can discuss it at I:A#Bots. Permission may be granted there. Ebe123 (^{Talkabout it}|_contribs) 22:12, 21 May 2018 (UTC)

Même que l'utilisation de robots pour créer des pages est controversée, on peut le discuter à la page I:A#Bots. C'est là où qu'on autorise les bots. Généralement, ce n'est pas trop utile parce qu'on cherche l'activité humaine d'un wiki-test, pas le montant de contenu. Ebe123 (^{Talkabout it}|_contribs) 22:18, 21 May 2018 (UTC)

@Ebe123: Thank you for the information. for the content of the wt/shy I want just to put the translation of the words in Shy with simple structure. For the words in Chaoui, it's persons who will put it.

@Ebe123: Merci pour l'info. À propos du contenu du wt/shy je veux juste mettre les traductions avec une structure simple. pour les mots en "Shy" c'est des personnes qui vont le mettre.--Reda Kerbouche (talk) 09:45, 23 May 2018 (UTC)

@Reda Kerbouche: Quel est ton compte de robot ? Avec cela, on peut discuter le sujet d'autorisation pour le robot sur I:A#Bots. Il y a eu des robots pour la création d'articles automatisé, par contre ces efforts-là ne sert pas à l'approbation du Wiktionnaire, vu que ce qu'on cherche est une communauté active, pas nécessairement le montant de contenu.

En voyant ton activité rapide sur ce wiki-test, je crois que vous utilisez déjà cet outil automatisé sans l'autorisation. C'est dangereux, et l’on exige l'autorisation de méthodes automatisées avant qu'il soit utilisé. Vous devez arrêter pour l'instant avant d'avoir obtenu l'autorisation. Ebe123 (^{Talkabout it}|_contribs) 22:16, 30 May 2018 (UTC)

De cette page: Note: Bots for mass article creation are typically not approved. The ultimate approval of projects into subdomains is based on the existence of active communities, not only the numbers of articles. Avec les pages qui sont déjà créés, les traductions n'ont pas de lien qui fonctionne aux mots natifs. Plus gravement, certaines des catégories mêmes sont en français... Il y a donc un besoin d'intervention manuelle (comme ici). J'aimerais voire si @StevenJ81 a des opinions sur ce sujet, et si autres membres qui contribuent au project Wt/shy veulent ce robot, s'il y a eu une discussion locale. Ebe123 (^{Talkabout it}|_contribs) 04:46, 31 May 2018 (UTC)

@Ebe123: Bonjour ça fait plaisir que tu suis le projet. Mais je vais directement te dir que je sais pas comment on fait un bot. Je voulais demander à @Pamputt: de m'aider.

Tout ce que j'ai faits, c'est avec mes mains. j'ai perdu beaucoup de temps pour ça. La seule chose automatique que me facilite le travaille c'est Help:Wt/shy/khurda. Pour les catégories en français c'est à cause des modules importés du wiktionnaire en français qui sont traduits au fur et à mesure Module:Wt/shy/types de mots/data Module:Wt/shy/section article/data.

J'ai une vidéo qui montre mon travail en temps réel sur Facebook. il y a pour l'instant deux contributeurs. Pour le bot on est pas trop pressé, surtout que comme tu dis que le plus important c'est d'impliquer la communauté, et moi j'ai l'initiation de faire sortir le projet de l'incubator car c'est mes objective en tant que manager du futur nouveau user groupe de la fondation.

À propos des mots en français: je suis en train de transfairer les mots Chaoui qui existent dans le wiktionnaire en français a l'incubator, ensuite de vais créé les mots en langue native, c'est l'etape suivante (voir ici).

S'il y a n'importe quelle question à propos du projet je suis ouvert à tout commentaire ou question ex.---Reda Kerbouche (talk) 08:06, 31 May 2018 (UTC)

Je viens de mettre toutes les catégories en Chaoui, et je viens de finir de transférer les mots du wiktionnaire en français. l'étape suivante est des créé les mots en Chaoui. Cordialement--Reda Kerbouche (talk) 09:30, 31 May 2018 (UTC)

Utilisation de méthodes automatiques sans droits de bot n'est pas interdite per se. Pour le pluspart, nous croyons que utiliser bots, avec droits ou sans droits, n'aide pas à une communauté à se former. Mais pour une Wiktionnaire, particulièrement, il y a tellement de structure que c'est peut-être raisonnable utiliser un bot pour créer de l'infrastructure des définitions.

Donc, essayez le suivant: utiliser le bot pour deux semaines en plus sans droits bot. Aprés deux semaines, Ebe123, vous réporterez si l'utilisation a réussi. Après ça, nous pouvons considérer les droits bot.

Vous devrez créer une compte bot maintenant pour utiliser le bot, bien sans droit, pour séparer ces changes de votre autre travail.

Rappelez: le projet ne sera pas approuvé sans une vraie communauté. StevenJ81 (talk) 15:00, 31 May 2018 (UTC)

@StevenJ81: @Ebe123: Les amis, je n'ai pas utilisé de bot. Je voulais un bot mais j'ai reusit à faire ce travail manuellement. Maintenant c'est plus intéressant pour moi le transfère automatique, jusqu'à nouvel ordre ). ps. le bot fait le travail que j'ai fait en un seul jour, pas en 15 jours comme dans mon cas. Les autres utilisateurs vont faire le travail qui reste. Pour le moment j'ai besoin d'assistance technique.--Reda Kerbouche (talk) 18:06, 31 May 2018 (UTC)

@Reda Kerbouche: Vous pouvez créer un autre compte (comme User:RedaBot ou quelque chose). Avec cela de fait, on peut donner de l'assistance (technique) si vous désirez, mais vous serez responsable pour les actions du robot. Ebe123 (^{Talkabout it}|_contribs) 19:25, 31 May 2018 (UTC)

@Pamputt: Je vous invite avec le bot, et on permet un essai pour la création de 25 pages (avec un compte séparé) avant de décider de donner le droit formel de robot.

StevenJ81, a normal test-run would be ~20 pages before giving the bot flag. An edit limit is better as it limits the effects better than time-based, and would not spam RecentChanges. Ebe123 (^{Talkabout it}|_contribs) 19:41, 31 May 2018 (UTC)

@Ebe123: Ok je vais le créer, mais juste pour des actions de maintenance (Voilà le nouvel utilisateur User:RedaBot). Je dois fair quoi après ? Cordialement.--Reda Kerbouche (talk) 19:43, 31 May 2018 (UTC)

J'avais compris que Pamputt vous fournira le logiciel que le robot va utiliser. Il faut donc lui attendre (vous pourrez lui donner un "status update" sur sa page fr.wikt). Ebe123 (^{Talkabout it}|_contribs) 19:46, 31 May 2018 (UTC)

@Reda Kerbouche, Ebe123: je dispose déjà d'un compte bot (User:PamputtBot) qui tourne uniquement sur le Wiktionnaire francophone pour le moment. J'avais proposé à Reda mon aide sur ce point et il fallait s'assurer que les règles ici permettaient l'utilisation de bot (car je comprends les arguments que vous avancez). Donc l'étape suivante, Reda, c'est que tu m'envoies par mail un fichier csv qui contient les mots en chaoui avec leur traduction. Et il me faudrait aussi le wikicode d'une page type. Après ça, je pourrais commencer à avoir une idée de ce qu'il faut coder. On peut continuer la discussion sur ma page de discussion (ici ou sur fr.wikt). Par contre, je suis pas mal pris en ce moment donc ça me prendra un peu de temps (2-3 semaines) avant d'arriver à quelque chose de fonctionnel. Pamputt (talk) 19:55, 31 May 2018 (UTC)

Y a-t-il une mise à jour pour le statut du bot? Ebe123 (^{Talkabout it}|_contribs) 18:48, 25 July 2018 (UTC)

Einfaches Deutsch

I'm thinking about a wikipedia version using simplified German (see de:Einfache Sprache and de:Leichte Sprache). Now concerning the requirement, that to start a new language version here, there must be an ISO code assigned to that language. As far as I see, Basic English has no ISO code. Still, there is a simple English wikipedia version. So what would one have to do to start a Simple German language version? --WolfgangRieger (talk) 10:09, 31 May 2018 (UTC)

@WolfgangRieger: Understand that Simple English Wikipedia existed before the current rules were put into effect, so its existence and (lack of) language code are irrelevant to a possible Simple German project. (It is "grandfathered", if you know that term.)

As for future projects in "Simple" versions of languages, there are substantial barriers:

• To some extent, "Simple" languages are like other constructed languages. They must have been developed elsewhere, they must have established (and published) standards, and be used in a meaningful way in "real life". (The Simple English used in SE Wikipedia and Wiktionary isn't quite that, but it blends a couple of approaches to English that do so.)
• At the time that rules were being discussed, the only non-English example that LangCom was aware of was français fondamental. It is entirely possible that Leichte Sprache meets those standards, but you'd have to show that.
• On the whole, LangCom feels that the best judge of (a) whether there is a need for such content and (b) whether the simple language version being used is an appropriate one is the existing language community itself. Accordingly, the rule for incubating projects like this is that they should be created not here on Incubator, but rather as subprojects within the parent language project. In this case, then, you would make a subproject within German Wikipedia, and incubate there. (Given that your page names would surely be the same as page names for topics written in standard German, the best way to accomplish this would probably be to create a new namespace, perhaps called Leichte, and place your pages in that namespace exclusively. But there may be other ways to create such a subproject; how to do that is up to the dewiki community.)

  If I had to read between the lines, I'd guess that LangCom would prefer that the simple content would remain inside dewiki as a permanent solution. But if at some point both the "Leichte" community and the broader dewiki community would both prefer that the project be spun off, you would then come back to LangCom and request a project creation. I'd venture that if things got that far, LangCom would find a way to get it done. But that would be a long way down the road from here.

Before you dive into this, though, I'd strongly encourage you to spend some time looking at Simple English Wikipedia. You will find that it is extremely difficult for the community there to curate: to make sure that pages remain in Simple English, that they remain neutral, to make sure people unhappy with the POV of an enwiki article don't come to simplewiki to try to create a more favorable article, and so forth. Simple English Wikipedia has rejected a couple of requests from people to (re-)create (incubate) other Simple English projects, simply because people have their hands full managing this one. (The Wiktionary is an exception, because it is primarily used to provide links for certain vocabulary words that are [a] too complex to include in a SE Wikipedia article without explanation, but [b] are not really candidates for SE Wikipedia articles themselves.)

I hope this answers some questions. Please get back to me if you have others. StevenJ81 (talk) 14:34, 31 May 2018 (UTC)

Thank you for your quick response. Silly question: What is LangCom? --WolfgangRieger (talk) 14:55, 31 May 2018 (UTC)

See m:Language committee. StevenJ81 (talk) 15:00, 31 May 2018 (UTC)

Mediawiki:wx/xx/xx ?

Hi all, i have a question, can i add a Mediawiki:wx/xx/xx to the Wx/xx project or it is impossible ? i want to add wikt:fr:MediaWiki:Gadget-Flexions.css. Can someone help me ?.--Reda Kerbouche (talk) 13:07, 31 May 2018 (UTC)

In general, yes. Copy the target files to a page (pages) in mainspace of wx/xx. Then ping me and I will move them into MediaWiki space. There is a caveat, though. At first, I would not try to install them as true gadgets. Instead, I would prefer that you invoke them in your own common.js and/or common.css files. When you're quite sure they're working properly—and I'd want to make sure that at least two different accounts have made good use of them—we can consider installing them as actual gadgets. StevenJ81 (talk) 14:40, 31 May 2018 (UTC)

@StevenJ81: I create Wt/shy/Gadget-Flexions.css and User:Reda Kerbouche/Gadget-Flexions.css, its ok ? I dont know what i have to do next.--Reda Kerbouche (talk) 18:31, 31 May 2018 (UTC)

@Reda Kerbouche: I started a technical discussion about this point on fr.wikt. Please feel free to talk to JackPotte if something is not clear. Pamputt (talk) 19:58, 31 May 2018 (UTC)

I don't know Incubator but you may try Wt/shy/common.css temporarily, to be sure to load the styles, if it works like MediaWiki:Common.css here. JackPotte (talk) 21:00, 31 May 2018 (UTC)

Non, ça doit être MediaWiki:Wt/shy/Common.css, et il faut avoir le droit editinterface (comme "Translator"), qu'on peut demander sur I:A. Ebe123 (^{Talkabout it}|_contribs) 21:40, 31 May 2018 (UTC)

Ordinairement, nous ne donnons pas "Translator" à moins qu'on aille l'utiliser souvent. Si ce ne sera qu'un ou deux fois, un sysop peut le faire.

(My French a little shaky for this:) Apropos to what JackPotte said, though, you can put it anywhere you want, if you yourself then load it from your personal .js or .css file. It's really better just to test it out first that way. We can always put it into a MediaWiki:Wt/shy/Common.css later. StevenJ81 (talk) 03:08, 1 June 2018 (UTC)

@StevenJ81: @JackPotte: @Ebe123: @Pamputt: Hi all, i think the .CSS work you can see here Help:Wt/shy/khurda/shy/-awal-. thank you for all of you.--Reda Kerbouche (talk) 05:26, 1 June 2018 (UTC)

@Reda Kerbouche: I'm glad it works!

Let me point out just a couple of things.

• On Incubator, project Help: and Project: (Wikipedia:) namespace pages go in mainspace here. (Thus: move your page to Wt/shy/Help:khurda/shy/-awal-.) Their talk pages go in main "Talk:" space. This is so it is easier to move them when projects are approved. Here, Help: and Incubator: pages are strictly for use by the overall wiki. (Categories, Templates, Modules and MediaWiki work differently because things have to be in those namespaces to work properly.)
• Keep in mind that when you invoke the magic word {{PAGENAME}} on a test project page, you get the whole page name, including prefixes. (That's why your section "Anemeḵ", your collapse-box header includes the prefixes.) In the long run, that might be just fine; it will certainly make your life easier in the future when the project moves to its own subdomain. For now, if you want to clean the appearance of that up, you can use some other tricks to suppress other parts of the name. See mw:Help:Magic words#Page names and mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions##titleparts, though I can't tell you I know the best way to do this for your purposes. StevenJ81 (talk) 13:34, 1 June 2018 (UTC)

@StevenJ81: thank you I will follow your advice.--Reda Kerbouche (talk) 19:34, 1 June 2018 (UTC)

@StevenJ81: @Reda Kerbouche: Hello, CSS work for me too.--Great11 (talk) 13:53, 3 June 2018 (UTC)

@StevenJ81: Can you move Wt/shy/Gadget-Flexions.css into MediaWiki space now for us ? thank you in advance.--Reda Kerbouche (talk) 19:44, 3 June 2018 (UTC)

Done I left a redirect behind so it wouldn't be broken right away. But do change your .js and/or .css to accommodate new location. StevenJ81 (talk) 22:40, 4 June 2018 (UTC)

@StevenJ81: Great, thank you. The last think the .CSS doesn't work under this name can you change the name of the page to common.css.--Reda Kerbouche (talk) 05:53, 5 June 2018 (UTC)

Done StevenJ81 (talk) 13:43, 5 June 2018 (UTC)

@StevenJ81: Now its very good =) tank you.--Reda Kerbouche (talk) 18:28, 5 June 2018 (UTC)

Creating a page written in Meetei Mayek scripts.

I want to create a Wikipedia page which can be read and write in our own script viz: Meetei Mayek. --Awangba Mangang (talk) 16:48, 31 May 2018 (UTC)Awangba Mangang--Awangba Mangang (talk) 16:48, 31 May 2018 (UTC).

The discussion for this test-wiki creation is on I:RST#Projects using script Mtei (Meetei Mayek). Ebe123 (^{Talkabout it}|_contribs) 19:51, 31 May 2018 (UTC)

Help:Language support

To the community:

I have just rewritten the page Help:Language support to reflect the current infrastructure and tools of language support here on Incubator and across the WMF projects. Because of that, I completely deleted all previous translations.

I'd like to make a strong request to the community—administrators and test-admins especially, but also anyone else actively involved in creating content here—to create translations for that page in the languages you are fluent in. Thank you. StevenJ81 (talk) 15:11, 12 June 2018 (UTC)

Request deletion of all pages in Category:Wp/lkt/Iyápi_wapásike

Several hundred machine-generated stubs (names of linguists) were created on the Lakota test wiki several years ago. These stubs are of no particular interest or relevance to the Lakota Wikipedia, have not been touched since, and are unlikely to ever be expanded. Is it possible to request deletion of all pages in Category:Wp/lkt/Iyápi_wapásike? Maybe there a more appropriate place for me to submit this request? -R12ntech (talk) 19:19, 23 June 2018 (UTC)

Just a couple of questions here: (1) Are these in incorrect Lakota? (2) Do any of them say anything other than "John/Jane Doe is a linguist?" StevenJ81 (talk) 16:47, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

(1) The language use is correct. (2) I haven't identified any of these articles that include any additional content. I pinged the author of the articles last fall with no response. -R12ntech (talk) 18:49, 3 July 2018 (UTC)

OK. I'll delete. If any of the pages had any more content than that, they would be worth keeping anyway. But not just "John/Jane Doe is a linguist." StevenJ81 (talk) 13:52, 4 July 2018 (UTC)

Excellent, thanks! -R12ntech (talk) 13:43, 10 July 2018 (UTC)

@StevenJ81:: I came across your recent comments on Wp/zgh's request for approval. If "quality of random pages" is a criterion for approval, then it seems it would be in Wp/lkt's strategic interest to also delete all the pages from Category:Wp/lkt/Ikčé wičháša / Category:Wp/lkt/Iyápi (languages). All these articles were machine-generated as above, and none have been edited since or are likely to be edited in the near term. The only categorized page I would like to keep is Wp/lkt/Lakȟótiyapi (Lakota language). --R12ntech (talk) 20:31, 10 August 2018 (UTC)

Hi, @R12ntech. It's not quite that straightforward. Given whom I was speaking to, that was the the best way to explain the situation.

Basically, what we don't want to do is to approve a project that is effectively all stubs. And the easiest way for us to determine whether or not a project is mostly stubs is to start looking at random pages within the test: if most are stubs, that is a problem. For most tests, that's probably accurate enough.

That said: Let's say you have developed a test with 400 or so mainspace pages and want it evaluated for approval. Of those 400, you have 40 known stubs in a couple of categories, but the rest of the project has pretty well-developed pages. Then I just would not worry about it. And if someone comes to you and says, "checked random page, too many stubs", you can fairly ask them to try to evaluate more pages manually, explicitly skipping pages in such and such a category. And they/we should do that.

On the other hand, if 200 pages out of 400 are stubs, it's a problem. As I said to the other editor, if the intention is for people to be able to use this project productively, and half the pages are one-sentence pages that are not really providing useful information, then there is little point to approve the project.

So, given that background, tell me how you'd like to proceed, and we'll do that. StevenJ81 (talk) 19:29, 13 August 2018 (UTC)

Thanks StevenJ81! That is an enlightening explanation. It should be OK to leave these, then. I suppose we can always just delete them later if it comes to that. --R12ntech (talk) 18:25, 15 August 2018 (UTC)

@R12ntech: I think that's the right approach.

BTW, interested in signing up for "test administrator"? You clearly know what you're doing. StevenJ81 (talk) 18:34, 15 August 2018 (UTC)

Tidy to RemexHtml

See I:POST#Tidy to RemexHtml. The new parsing engine will be put in place later this week. Thanks to User:Xaosflux for helping us correct many errors in the run-up to this. That having been said, there are still plenty of pages left here that will be parsed differently using the new engine. If you have a problem after this, please let us know here and we will try to help. StevenJ81 (talk) 16:45, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

Still why I can't find Meetei Language in preference, I think I had translated mediacore message more than 13%.

I had translated mediacore message more than 13% but why still I can't find Meetei Language in Language preference.

ꯑꯋꯥꯡꯕꯥ 11:11, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

When did you finish? It takes between 3 and 7 days for a change like that to get here from translatewiki. So unless it has been seven days, please just be patient.

Please go back and finish the MediaWiki (most important messages) group. You're going to need all of that complete eventually. StevenJ81 (talk) 14:20, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

How to create template /infobox when articles are writing with Meetei Mayek ?

Any template or infobox when articles is writing with using Meetei Mayek is not possible in Wikipedia incubator for article creation. Is that template /infobox should we be writing in English ?

Please give me some advice for making infobox in Meetei Mayek script in Wikipedia. ꯑꯋꯥꯡꯕꯥ 12:37, 4 July 2018 (UTC)

Search box

Hi,

Is there something in the Incubator like the Search box template in the English Wikipedia? It allows searching with a prefix.

It would be very useful for main pages of Incubator wikis, so that it will be possible to search only in that Incubator.

If it exists, I cannot find it.

If it doesn't exist, it should be created. I looks like I can only create templates with a prefix, so I guess I need an administrator's help ;) --Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 10:47, 5 July 2018 (UTC)

Probably a good idea, Amir. Create it at {{Wp/qdp/Search box}}, with its documentation, and then I'll move it. StevenJ81 (talk) 13:33, 5 July 2018 (UTC)

Translation

Hi,

I created a translatable page here: Wp/fon/Project:Tips.

I don't have the permission to mark it for translation. Can anybody please do it? Or give me the translation administrator permission? :)

Thanks! --Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 11:26, 5 July 2018 (UTC)

I don't think that page should be translatable. It should simply be written in the Fon language instead of English. --OWTB (talk) 13:24, 5 July 2018 (UTC)

@Ooswesthoesbes, Amire80: Should we make this a new Incubator:-space page? StevenJ81 (talk) 13:34, 5 July 2018 (UTC)

I think most of that information can already be found in the Incubator namespace. The information on this page is adjusted to fit Wp/fon. --OWTB (talk) 13:39, 5 July 2018 (UTC)

IsPartOf Template

Hi, I'm Napoleon VIII, Wy/ja Administrater.

Template:Wy/ja/IsPartOf doesn't work. But I don't why it doesn't work. Who knows how to work it, and could you fix it? --Napoleon VIII(I'm a Japanese.)(Talk) 00:20, 7 July 2018 (UTC)

You'll need to explain what it's supposed to do, and show us how it doesn't work. StevenJ81 (talk) 13:04, 9 July 2018 (UTC)

Sorry, I didn't explain enough.

It was made in 2015, but it didn't work like Enwy, Wy/eo and Wy/ko. So I tried to make Template:Wy/ja/IsPartOf like them, but I couldn't. And, I asked the problem here.--Napoleon VIII(I'm a Japanese.)(Talk) 11:06, 10 July 2018 (UTC)

It is linked by 2 pages, Wy/ja/鹿児島県 and Wy/ja/愛知県. But it only made the upper prefix disappear in the 2 pages and add the page to Category.--Napoleon VIII(I'm a Japanese.)(Talk) 12:21, 12 July 2018 (UTC)

@Napoleon VIII: See if what I just did works. StevenJ81 (talk) 13:59, 12 July 2018 (UTC)

Thank you! It was fixed! Thank you very much!! --Napoleon VIII(I'm a Japanese.)(Talk) 09:54, 13 July 2018 (UTC)

Rinconada Bikol

How to approved as a wiki, aprroved Rinconada Bikol as Wikipedia. thanks ShiminUfesoj (talk) 12:25, 9 July 2018 (UTC)

I will look over your test in the next few days. StevenJ81 (talk) 13:07, 9 July 2018 (UTC)

Thanks. Well. There is a requirement to approve a wiki right? ShiminUfesoj (talk) 16:10, 10 August 2018 (UTC)

Creating Santali Wikipedia

Dear StevenJ81, Is it a appropriate place or not I am placing a point to you. Language committee has given their approval for creating Santali wikipedia and the technical works is going on. I also want to join the task T198400 and already sign up for this few days ago and there was a notice that wait patiently for approval. But i am wondering that how long I need to wait for this approval. If it is not appropriate place for placing this issue here then express my apology in advance. Manik Soren (talk) 06:19, 8 July 2018 (UTC)

@Manik Soren: (moved from elsewhere)

Remember, most people here, including people who create and transfer wikis, are volunteers. I've seen wikis created within a week or two of requests, and others that waited almost three months. You just really have to be patient, and continue to contribute here in the meantime.

@R Ashwani Banjan Murmu, Subasmurmu, Ramjit Tudu: That said, in the meantime, if any or all of you want to create a "Project:Request for permissions" page within your test, and start a regular RfA discussion there, I'm prepared to ask the stewards to honor that process immediately once the new wiki is approved. StevenJ81 (talk) 14:05, 12 July 2018 (UTC)

Consultation on the creation of a separate user group for editing sitewide CSS/JS

Copied in from Incubator:Wikimedia news

(Please help translate to your language)

Hi all,

I'm preparing a change in who can edit sitewide CSS/JS pages. (These are pages like MediaWiki:Common.css and MediaWiki:Vector.js which are executed in the browser of all readers and editors.) Currently all administrators are able to edit these pages, which poses a serious and unnecessary security risk. Soon, a dedicated, smaller user group will take over this task. Your community will be able to decide who belongs in this group, so this should mean very little change for you. You can find out more and provide feedback at the consultation page on Meta. If you are involved in maintaining CSS/JS code, or policymaking around adminship requests, please give it a look!

Thanks!
Tgr (talk) 08:45, 12 July 2018 (UTC) (via global message delivery)

End of copy

This may have an impact on Incubator bigger than that of many other wikis. For that reason, I am setting up a page called Incubator talk:Creation of separate user group for editing sitewide CSS/JS for the purpose of discussing issues specifically related to Incubator. StevenJ81 (talk) 15:46, 12 July 2018 (UTC)

Can someone setup Central Sierra Miwok (Saclan) for translating the interface for me?

I am having trouble contacting them, cannot find their email and IRC doesn't seem to work for/with my account on there. Please somebody help? We don't have words for everything but we can start with the ones that we do. Cheers.Baymiwuk (talk) 08:49, 14 July 2018 (UTC)

Try writing on their support forum. Ebe123 (^{Talkabout it}|_contribs) 05:05, 27 July 2018 (UTC)

Proposal to remove "Translators" user group

There's a proposal to remove "Translators" user group and merge it to the new "Technical administrators" user group. (See above.) The rationale is at phab:T199620. Comments welcome.--GZWDer (talk) 16:33, 16 July 2018 (UTC)

I won't be all that upset if the community decides to do this, but personally I don't favor it.

The key right that Translators have is {editinterface), the ability to edit pages in the MediaWiki namespace. (Administrators have this right as well.) Pages in that namespace (see list) are of a couple of different types:

• JS/CSS pages, which are the main purpose for the new user group Technical administrators.
• Sitewide messages and translations.

In reality, once the right to edit JS/CSS pages requires Technical administrator status and is no longer available to pure Translators, there is much less risk in giving people the Translator flag. The most members of that can potentially do is mess up messages and translations on the wiki, and those problems can easily be fixed if there is a problem. Moreover, while much of the translation portion of this is now handled on translatewiki.net, we have a number of MediaWiki-space translations that are local here due to the needs of the Incubator extension and other Incubator-specific messages, like the inputs to the template {{Test wiki}}. There are a lot of languages here on Incubator, most of which I don't speak. And as a rule if someone wants to undertake adding translations in some of those languages—and if s/he has been around here long enough that there is good reason to trust her/him—I would like to continue to have the ability to let that person do the translations herself/himself, instead of having to create pages for her/him. (IMO, it may be entirely appropriate to merge these two user rights groups on many/most wikis, but there is good reason to leave them separate here.)

The number of people in the Translators group has always been small, and I will propose below to make the default term of a translator limited, as we do with test-administrators. In the event, this group may often be completely empty, or may have only one or two members. But as the most active administrator here these days, I'd strongly prefer to have the option to give this right to individuals without having to make them administrators or technical administrators. StevenJ81 (talk) 14:45, 18 July 2018 (UTC)

I would also say that, following the above texts, I Oppose removing this right from Special:Listusers, as not all messages are suitable for TWN migrations. --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 16:14, 18 July 2018 (UTC)

The main purpose of translators is to translate, although the group is sometimes repurposed for other MW ns editing. So it should stay even if a tech-admin group is introduced. --MF-W {a, b} 12:33, 20 July 2018 (UTC)

It is clear that the consensus is not to eliminate this group, so both this discussion and the task at phabricator are now closed. Note that the group may be renamed to a Wikimedia-wide standard ("interface-editor"). I have requested retaining our name as a local alternate, but I'm not sure the developers are going to go along with that. StevenJ81 (talk) 20:32, 25 July 2018 (UTC)

Alternate proposal: Limit the term of "Translators"

In the event that the community does not accept the proposal above, I do think it is fair to limit the term of translators to one year, as we do for test-administrators. I would propose the following mechanism for this:

• For the two members of this group who are not currently test-administrators, I would leave messages on their respective talk pages asking if they wish to continue to have this right. If they answer "Yes" within one month, I will renew the translator flag for one year. If they do not, I will remove the flag.
• For the one member who is also a test administrator, I would follow the same procedure, except that a "Yes" will result in my renewing the translator flag until the next expiration of his test-administrator status, at which point he would need to reapply for both groups.

In the future, I would handle new requests similarly:

• Approved requests from test-administrators will expire along with the next expiration of her/his test-administrator status.
• Approved requests from other users will expire in one year from approval.

In unusual cases—I have no specific examples needing action now, but I'm thinking about legitimate alternate accounts of administrators here, as well as certain bot accounts in good standing—I would reserve the right to grant this right without time limits. Again, that would be unusual, and in any event I expect the number of accounts to have this right at all to be very small at all times. StevenJ81 (talk) 14:45, 18 July 2018 (UTC)

Support the only good idea here. --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 16:14, 18 July 2018 (UTC)

Should we just add editinterface right to test-administrators?--GZWDer (talk) 13:14, 19 July 2018 (UTC)

We could, but again, my experience here tells me that it's not the best idea. For the most part, we are willing to give test-admin status here to anyone who has been active for a couple of months and has made a couple of hundred edits on her/his test. There's a good reason to do so: Frequently these tests are in languages that no (full) administrator here speaks, and it's far better for a competent speaker to handle admin matters within a test for that reason. But I'd rather see a much longer track record than that before making MW space available to them. For the most part, if a test-admin has a track record, and is going to use the right more than extremely sporadically, we will normally grant it. But few even request it. StevenJ81 (talk) 15:31, 19 July 2018 (UTC)

It makes sense to do this, and IMHO it doesn't need much discussion. Translator status already is added and removed "when a bureaucrat deems appropriate to do so", so nothing impedes making the current translators temporary and to assign the right temporarily in the future in most cases. --MF-W {a, b} 12:32, 20 July 2018 (UTC)

@MF-Warburg: As usual, you are right. Still, I'm happy to let this sit for a few more days, and then incorporate the idea that "ordinarily the status is granted for a limited term of one year" into the policy. And I thought it would be courteous to inform the current translators of that. StevenJ81 (talk) 17:35, 20 July 2018 (UTC)

This proposal looks good to me. --OWTB (talk) 08:17, 21 July 2018 (UTC)

This proposal has won community consensus, so I will implement it. StevenJ81 (talk) 20:32, 25 July 2018 (UTC)

Consider deploying InternetArchiveBot (IABot) here?

To be honest, it's really terrible that we have outdated references links on the new created wikis, and we can't image that all of them are having enough times to fix em. If we run this bot here, it can also fix quality of new wikis without any other actions. Pinging maintainer @Cyberpower678: to focus here. --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 04:49, 21 July 2018 (UTC)

It makes sense to run it here, because otherwise all newly created wikis need to be checked immediately after creation. --OWTB (talk) 08:13, 21 July 2018 (UTC)

Sure, I know Liuxinyu970226 knows where to file this request. :-)—CYBERPOWER (Chat) 15:16, 21 July 2018 (UTC)

Nias Language

Hi, I'm new here. May someone help me in creating articles in Li Niha ? — The preceding unsigned comment was added by Anugrahgori (discussion • contribs) 12:29, 30 July 2018 (UTC).

There are already some pages here in that language. Look in the test Wp/nia. Then just start making new pages and writing. Just make sure page names begin with "Wp/nia/...". StevenJ81 (talk) 15:14, 30 July 2018 (UTC)

A proposal for a big reform of the Incubator

Hi,

This is a pretty big thing, so please pay attention.

The Incubator is the first step in the journey of every language to getting its own wiki site. The way in which the Incubator currently works, however, is pretty outdated. In essence, it is considerably harder to use the Incubator than to use a regular wiki: the prefixes, the categories, the lack of proper Wikidata integration, inconvenient mobile interface, the lack of Content Translation and some other features, and so on. This is a serious problem, because by now we are talking about languages the speakers of which often have little experience using the web, and this is an unnecessary and damaging difficulty. People should focus on writing prose in their language, and not on prefixes and templates.

Briefly, I am proposing to make very significant changes to the process of creating a new wiki, and the Incubator will be the most affected part. Here's the short summary of the proposal:

• Instead of putting all the languages in one place, create a wiki for each new eligible language that has a reasonable proposal made by at least one native speaker.
• This wiki will not be a full-fledged domain that is fully equal to Wikipedia. The URL will look differently, and it will be possible to delete it easily if the wiki turns out to be problematic for any reason.
• However, this site will support all the usual functionality of a wiki: user accounts shared with Wikipeia in other languages, Wikidata connectivity, extensions, templates, Visual Editor, Content Translation, etc.
• The wiki will not demand the convoluted techniques that the Incubator demands, such as the "Wp/abc/" prefixes.
• If the wiki functions well and the Langcom approves it, it will be converted to a full-fledged domain.
• (This applies to all Incubator projects and not only Wikipedia.)

For the full proposal, see this page in Phabricator: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T165585

I already discussed this a bit on the Language committee mailing list. You can read this discussion in the public archive of the Langcom mailing list: https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/langcom/2018-July/thread.html (see the thread "Please read: Fixing Incubator").

Some of the additional points that came up in the discussion (StevenJ81, please correct me if I'm wrong anywhere in this summary):

• When this is done, the first step will be gradual creation of up to 50 wikis for the most active of the current active incubators.
• Wikis for new eligible languages will be created using the new process.
• incubator.wikimedia.org will continue operating. In a further point in the future, it shall be discussed what to do about the less active incubators here, and whether to make this site read-only, but this doesn't have to be decided immediately.

The whole proposal is my initiative, based on years of observing people working in the Incubator and having various difficulties, and on my desire to make things easier for everybody: first and foremost, the people who want to create new wikis in their languages, and also for administrators, for volunteers who help new languages, and for technical operations engineers. No engineering work has been done around it yet. It is at the stage of writing the functional requirements and collecting community feedback.

Incubator community people, your comments here are essential and very, very welcome. Your experience is unique, and there is no chance that this will succeed without your input.

Thank you! --Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 12:58, 1 August 2018 (UTC)

I'm going to insert my comments here, as Amir asked me to make sure he got everything right.

• As Amir said, (a) no engineering work has been done yet, and (b) when it is done, the first step will be the gradual creation of incubator-domain wikis for up to 50 most active tests.
• The goal is that wikis for new eligible languages will be created using the new process. But people are really going to have to be patient about that, for two reasons:

1. The execution of this approach is going to be tested, with the inevitable bugs ironed out, during the first phase with the most active tests. The reason the first tests will be those is because ...
2. There are quite a few decisions to make about how to define an "eligible language" or "eligible project". What we very much do not want to see happen is a return to the Wild West of the 2006–9 period, where a ton of projects were created, but where many were nothing more than vandalism magnets. So we want to make sure that only projects where there is at least a moderately serious interest are given new incubator-domain wikis.

The most active tests don't have that second problem to worry about, so we can iron out any executional bugs without worrying about also creating a whole bunch of new incubator-domain wikis that prove to be useless. (I would quickly note that as is the case with all WMF projects, these active tests will be backed up regularly, so if there are any such bugs, little if any work will be lost.)

• Finally, two other points:
  • The current Incubator is staying open for business for the foreseeable future. I'm not sure I ever see it closing entirely, but it's certainly going to take us a while to get there if so.
  • The discussion at LangCom is highly likely to spill over into August.

We are very anxious to hear your input—not only support/oppose, but also any specific ideas you have for how to accomplish this. StevenJ81 (talk) 14:13, 1 August 2018 (UTC)

General discussion

• Support AgreedSraiki (talk) 13:04, 1 August 2018 (UTC)
• Support I agree with this proposal. All the points will be so much helpful to volunteers working on their language that has already its own difficulty. They can at least be less worried about technical things and can focus on linguistic matters such as standard language, new terms, writing system, etc. Wirjadisastra (talk) 14:05, 1 August 2018 (UTC)
• Support Incubator is broken. We need to fix it. Lojbanist (talk) 18:50, 1 August 2018 (UTC)
• Support I definitely agree with the premises and that it would be very useful to make something about that. I am not going now into developer/maintainer point of view (like which domain to use, how to implement sitelinks on Wikdiata and to which extend automatize the whole process). Rather my experiences and issues (I am working on Esperanto Wikivoyage):
  • Because of the specifics of Incubator we are now working hard in order to re-work a lot of thing after import... Like, making sitebanner in Wikivoyage working was hard and is definitely not finished. If better environment, we could just copy and translate the template from another Wikivoyage.
  • One our guy made a Wikidata-infobox surrogate. It is ridiculous to use so much time and effort in order to achieve only a light and poorly mainteined version of something that is the next step in evolution of our projects (help from Wikidata). And the best part - after import we will undo his whole work and make the infoboxes work with Wikidata. So double work...
  • Content Translation would be very useful (for Wikivoyage especially after better matching of section titles) but it doesn't work outside of Wikipedias. Now I am doing mostly technical work, but when thinking about content creation, the best way is to copy article from English Wikivoyage to English Wikipedia, then translate it by Content Translation to Esperanto Wikipedia and manually copy to Esperanto Wikivoyage in Incubator... Sounds insane?
  • I was organizing community edit-a-thon but the tool we used did not work in Incubator. So it was quite hard...
    • Side note: Depending on implementation of the new site it maybe became even harder for tools. But maybe not. So this should be in mind during preparation.
  • The known and annoying prefixes...
  • The known and annoying sitelinks...
    • And this is also thing of the whole language environment. Now we have manually add link on Esperanto Wikipedia (on its own domain) to Esperanto Wikivoyage (in Incubator) instead of simply adding link to Wikidata. So it is harder to invite people from known project to help with project in Incubator.
  • That said, I would very appreciate progress in this topic and would candidate Esperanto Wikivoyage as one of the firstly transported projects (if we do not receive own domain even before). So big support from my side! --KuboF Hromoslav (talk) 12:43, 2 August 2018 (UTC)
• Sounds like damn lots of new wikis which means damn lots of attractive honeypot for spambots. How will you deal with that? (Don't say you will rely on SWMT and Stewards.) — regards, Revi 14:12, 2 August 2018 (UTC)

  @Revi, if you look at the discussions on the LangCom board, you'll see that I have substantial concerns about that as well. For the first (20?) (50?) incubation subdomains done on the most active test projects, I'm not so very worried. But I'm not yet convinced we have a good answer for that with respect to a wide range of brand new test projects. Any ideas you have would be welcome. StevenJ81 (talk) 14:29, 2 August 2018 (UTC)

  I'm more worried that this will (infinitely) increase the number of wikis we (S) have to monitor, with virtually no decrease of the number of wikis to monitor. (Langcom almost never closes wikis, you know...) Practically stewards will have to monitor far more wikis than we used to when it was just a prefix inside the Incubator, and that is undue pressure on us given your attitude at closing wikis. Maybe only create subdomains with test-sysop? (Actually, I sent a mail to langcom@lists.wm.o but seems discarded or still waiting for moderation.) — regards, Revi 14:52, 2 August 2018 (UTC)

  Wikis with test sysops still need monitoring, as many test sysops are inexperienced. --OWTB (talk) 15:04, 2 August 2018 (UTC)

  I think I typed it but I didn't: Incubator full sysops should be (somewhat semi-automatically) granted sysop there (or with the ability to grant themselves to those test-independent-wikis) to monitor them as well to assist them, imo. — regards, Revi 15:08, 2 August 2018 (UTC)

  Whatever else you say, the current plan is that Incubator full sysops and 'crats are to have those rights on all such subdomains. It's ordinarily supposed to be our job to watch over them. And part of the engineering work that would need to be done is for a unified way to monitor "recent changes". As is clear from the discussions, this is an idea for now. Its execution, especially once you get beyond a few pretty-close-to-approval test wikis, is far from settled. StevenJ81 (talk) 15:29, 2 August 2018 (UTC)

  And I think it's worth noting I am against this proposal until there is solid anti-spam plans. — regards, Revi 16:29, 2 August 2018 (UTC)

  Hi Revi,

  Thanks a lot for your comments. I started this discussion to get replies like these :)

  As I already noted in one of emails to the Langcom mailing list in reply to Ooswesthoesbes, the question of monitoring is indeed essential. This reform will not go forward until a widely-agreed plan for doing it is in place.

  What do you think about the proposal by Martin Urbanec on Phabricator?

  About the other particular points that you made:

  • Langcom almost never closes wikis, you know - this is true (and not necessarily good, but that's a topic for a different discussion). This proposal, however, takes this into account, and states that the closing procedure for an incubator wiki will be shorter, and it will be easy to delete it in case of inactivity or vandalism. The details of how much vandalism or how much inactivity is enough for deleting such a wiki are up for discussion. Do you want to propose any particular metrics? Or shall we just rely on intuition? I'm fine with both.
  • Practically stewards will have to monitor far more wikis than we used to when it was just a prefix inside the Incubator - how do you monitor them now? Do you have a tool that monitors multiple wikis? Do you just go periodically over RecentChanges in different wikis? Do you wait for comments from people who notice vandalism and ping you? Do you do something else?
  • I'm more worried that this will (infinitely) increase the number of wikis we (S) have to monitor - when you say "increase infinitely", do you mean "increase infinitely", or "increase by a lot"? It will not be infinite, because a wiki can be created only for a language with a valid language code, and there are less than 8000 valid language codes. The actual number will be much smaller than 8000. It still means that the number may be considerably larger than the current ~300 Wikipedias and ~900 wikis total, but it's not infinite. Yes, people sometimes tell me that I understand things too literally ;)
  • I think I typed it but I didn't: Incubator full sysops should be (somewhat semi-automatically) granted sysop there (or with the ability to grant themselves to those test-independent-wikis) to monitor them as well to assist them, imo. - makes sense to me.

  Other than this issue, does this make sense? --Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 09:16, 3 August 2018 (UTC)

  Replies in numbered format, for readability.

  1. Martin's proposal - it looks good, that mostly solves the concern that S will be asked to fix lots of things.
  2. 6 months of no 'meaningful' contributions (except vandalism and spams of course)? Then contributors are given another 6 months before the data is actually purged (canceled if there is signal of survival?)
  3. CounterVandalism Network and COIBot is doing excellent jobs. However those are all on IRC which means standard limitation of IRC applies.
  4. I meant the latter, we have a finite number of languages in ISO 639, but workload can be the former as spambots simply do not sleep, unlike weak humans.

  — regards, Revi 09:39, 3 August 2018 (UTC)

• Support prefixes are frustrating —15:46, 2 August 2018 (UTC)
• Support I agree. but i just finished to do a small MOOC about how to edit wt/shy. but it is a good idea. --Reda Kerbouche (talk) 21:00, 2 August 2018 (UTC)

  User:Reda Kerbouche, thank you! :)

  Your support means a lot to me. --Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 09:16, 3 August 2018 (UTC)

• Support the new idea. Ninja✮Strikers ^«☎» 03:11, 3 August 2018 (UTC)
• Support Can't help but say that the prefix is too crowded. --夢蝶葬花 (talk) 06:10, 3 August 2018 (UTC)
• Support I hope that it enables new contributors to contribute for a long time. --Napoleon VIII(I'm a Japanese.)(Talk) 12:31, 3 August 2018 (UTC)
• Strongly Support, there have no reason to oppose these ideas. Remember that we need Wikidata support, we need CX support, we need PPAPI support, we need NPAPI support, we need... more and more supports. --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 03:21, 4 August 2018 (UTC)
• Strongly Support this proposal to enable new editors to get to work more quickly. --R12ntech (talk) 10:34, 5 August 2018 (UTC)
• Support but a wiki should be created if and only if they meet m:Language proposal policy#Requisites for eligibility and LangCom should review requests once the request is created. However I'd like to migrate all test projects from incubator and close it entirely.--GZWDer (talk) 19:20, 6 August 2018 (UTC)
• Agreed and strongly support because I am personally facing the problems and difficulties in editing and creating of pages on Saraiki language wikipedia. So all such reforms will be welcomed. Engr.ismailbhutta 12:48, 7 August 2018 (UTC)
• Support obviously. — Obangmoy (talk) 13:14, 8 August 2018 (UTC)
• I don't understand who's supposed to help all those wikis. The point of incubator is also that it's a central place where experienced users are available to help people who are often moving their first steps in the Wikimedia world. --Nemo bis (talk) 16:24, 10 August 2018 (UTC)
• Support--Rufet Turkmen (talk) 00:14, 12 August 2018 (UTC)
• Support--Ookuninusi (talk) 19:14, 15 August 2018 (UTC)
• Support--Vlad5250 (talk) 07:41, 16 August 2018 (UTC)
• Support --Holder (talk) 11:03, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

Conclusion (for now)

Calling @Amire80.
It seems clear to me that this community likes the idea of this Incubator reform very much. I don't think the discussion needs to go any further for now.

I will remind everyone that for now, this is an idea or proposal. Engineering work has not been done, and certainly has not been tested. If you are working in a test project that is not one of the 20 or so that are most active and closest to approval, you're not going to be in the first group of tests to try this out, even when it's ready. And there are still serious policy concerns about making sure that this doesn't become a way for people to create a lot of useless, junk projects. All of that and more still needs to be addressed.

In the next few days, I am going to create a page called Incubator:Reform discussions. Once there are enough details out there for the community to start discussing choices in detail, we will post the discussions to that page. Although we will always announce them on this page, too, I'd like this page to stay available for current business. If that's agreeable to everyone, then I think the next step belongs to User:Amire80. StevenJ81 (talk) 19:41, 8 August 2018 (UTC)

Gadget: AddPrefix

In the meantime, while we are waiting for the above to mature, did you know there is a gadget available on Incubator to help make using prefixes easier? Read on ...

Are you using Gadget:AddPrefix?

What this gadget does is pretty straightforward: it adds a prefix automatically to any link that you write on a page in a test wiki.

• It does not do this on user pages, user talk pages, or community pages like this.
• It does not automatically add prefixes to templates and category links.

This gadget does not make all of the challenges of using prefixes go away, but it makes certain things easier. I strongly encourage anyone whose job isn't mainly housekeeping (mostly sysops) to try it out.

How do I do that?

Go to Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-gadgets. Look for the gadget AddPrefix; it's near the bottom of the page. Check the box, then click Save.

Note that you can always deactivate it the same way (uncheck the box) if you decide you don't prefer it.

Should we make this gadget turn on by default for new contributors?

I was considering setting this gadget as "turned on by default" for new contributors. What does the community think about that idea? (Individual users can always turn it off if they wish.)

StevenJ81 (talk) 14:51, 1 August 2018 (UTC)

Support: Agreed, This should be dfault. Sraiki (talk) 15:32, 1 August 2018 (UTC)

Support Agreed. It's so useful. --Napoleon VIII(I'm a Japanese.)(Talk) 12:17, 3 August 2018 (UTC)

Support --R12ntech (talk) 10:37, 5 August 2018 (UTC)

Support Ebe123 (^{Talkabout it}|_contribs) 22:25, 7 August 2018 (UTC)

• Support --OWTB (talk) 11:15, 8 August 2018 (UTC)
• Support — Obangmoy (talk) 13:17, 8 August 2018 (UTC)

Well, there is a clear consensus, so I will set the gadget to be on by default. Please remember that what I'm about to do is only going to affect new accounts here. (I think.) If you are already here and want to use the gadget, what I am about to do is not gong to help you. (I think.) Go to the gadgets page (link above) and turn on the gadget yourself. Thanks to all for your comments. StevenJ81 (talk) 19:29, 8 August 2018 (UTC)

I just noticed it was automatically enabled for my account when editing Wn/li. --OWTB (talk) 12:30, 9 August 2018 (UTC)

• Support --夢蝶葬花 (talk) 02:17, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

Root category (moved from 2017 archive)

Following moved from Incubator:Community Portal/Archive/2017#Root category?
@StevenJ81: Is it right that the the root category should only figure in the main namespace, it should not be put in template pages? Amara-Amaziɣ (talk) 15:45, 1 August 2018 (UTC)

@Amara-Amaziɣ: No, it can be on any prefixed page, including (main) talk pages, templates, categories and modules. My strong preference is that you not add it to user pages and user talk pages (which shouldn't be prefixed anyway), because if you do there is some risk of accidental deletion if/when the project is exported. StevenJ81 (talk) 15:48, 1 August 2018 (UTC)

@StevenJ81: The problem is that the root category is used to count articles in Wp/shi. When used in other namespaces than the main one, it magnifies the number of articles in shi. Besides, I don't know how to remove it from the large number of templates. Thanks for your help. Amara-Amaziɣ (talk) 15:55, 1 August 2018 (UTC)

@Amara-Amaziɣ: I see your point. OK, here's what I'd like you to do:

• Create a new subcategory of Category:Wp/shi. Its English name would be Category:Wp/shi/Templates, but feel free to replace "Templates" with a local name. You can leave it empty for now, but tell me what you've named it.

Once you've done that, I'll bulk-move all of the pages in "Template:" (and "Template talk:") namespaces from the root category to that category. That will not affect any other categorization on the page. (It may take me a day or two to get to; I'm not sure.)

• If you're willing, also create a subcategory whose English name would be Category:Wp/shi/User pages. I'll move appropriate pages to that, too.

Finally, note that the magic word {{PAGESINCATEGORY}}, which is what {{Wp/shi/NUMBEROFARTICLES}} uses, by default adds both pages (all namespaces) and subcategories. If you want it to leave out subcategories, change the magic word call in the template to read {{PAGESINCATEGORY:Wp/shi|pages}}.

Hope that helped. (Best to put new discussions back on the main discussion page, BTW.) StevenJ81 (talk) 16:20, 1 August 2018 (UTC)

Fixing directionality

Hello,

Concerning both Wikimedia projets in ary (Moroccan Arabic), Wp/ary and Wt/ary, it's mentionned in their home page that they're RTL, and the script on translatewiki is Arab; however the editing in these projects is set in LTR. Does the problem come from MediaWiki:Common.css ?

Thank you in advance,

Cordially, --Reda benkhadra (talk) 14:49, 6 August 2018 (UTC)

Added ary to MediaWiki:Common.css, but the main cause is that the language is not currently recognized in MediaWiki itself. It will be once translations are made. Ebe123 (^{Talkabout it}|_contribs) 22:20, 7 August 2018 (UTC)

Broken index pages for standalone Wikipedias

Pages like Wp/sa or Wp/si, for incoming links looking for "known" Wikipedias that aren't here, seem to be broken. I don't see any way of getting from those pages to the existing Wikipedias for those languages (sa.wikipedia.org and si.wikipedia.org, respectively) — besides typing in the URL manually, of course. No way to edit the pages, so I'm not sure how this can be fixed. I also don't know if this affects anything besides Wikipedias. The two non-WPs I tried (Wb/sa and Wb/si) actually worked fine. - dcljr (talk) 02:56, 8 August 2018 (UTC)

@Dcljr: Known problem. It happens I sent a note about it to the developer of the extension just this morning. I'll try to keep pushing for this. (Note: the Wikipedia links on the non-WP pages are also broken.) StevenJ81 (talk) 06:28, 8 August 2018 (UTC)

@StevenJ81: Did you post anything to phab: as well? —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 07:21, 8 August 2018 (UTC)

This is bug T111600. --MF-W {a, b} 11:07, 8 August 2018 (UTC)

@Koavf: Not this time. This bug has been open for a long time, and has not been addressed. I decided to go directly to the developer this time. StevenJ81 (talk) 11:41, 8 August 2018 (UTC)

Thanks. Please update as you get info. I appreciate you being so proactive. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 17:33, 8 August 2018 (UTC)

Coord template on Incubator

Hi, please help make a geo/coord template at the end of this Wy/cs page work. --Czeva (talk) 14:55, 9 August 2018 (UTC)

Hi, I created the templates for you. But as these templates tend to be needlessly difficult, it is required to make modules. Another user will have to help you with that, as I'm not familiar with such things. --OWTB (talk) 08:24, 10 August 2018 (UTC)

Edit a page

Dear there I would like to edit a new page in Arabic language but I do not have that Validity yet.. How can I do that? FahdAbiRashed (talk) 06:49, 10 August 2018 (UTC)

Standard Arabic pages can be edited here. Or do you want to edit a specific Arabic variant (Moroccan, Egyptian, Tunisian, etc.)? --OWTB (talk) 08:18, 10 August 2018 (UTC)

Thank you OWTB for your reply and I am Wikipedia editors and I would like to edit new pages in wikivoyage.org in the Arabic language even I Additions and modifications in wikivoyage.org I can create a new article at this moment and I hope I can do that :) Thank you in advance for your kind cooperation FahdAbiRashed

It seems like you are interested in Wy/ar. --MF-W {a, b} 13:50, 14 August 2018 (UTC)

If that is the case, then understand that you must name your pages as "Wy/ar/[name of page]". (Name of page is in Arabic, but "Wy/ar/" is in Latin alphabet.) All pages here must have a prefix. StevenJ81 (talk) 14:32, 14 August 2018 (UTC)

Closure of proposal to merge Beta Wikiversity into Incubator

The current proposal to merge Beta Wikiversity into Incubator was closed. There was not really a consensus either way around the proposal, and in light of the reform proposal discussed above, it makes no sense to consider this until everything is settled. StevenJ81 (talk) 20:36, 16 August 2018 (UTC)