Incubator:Requests for deletions/Archive/2024

This page is an archive. Please do not edit the contents of this page. Direct any additional comments to the current discussion page.

Wp/anp and Wt/ckb

So far, both projects are launched for half years, and since then many other projects also launched, I doubt if there are still pages not migrated yet. --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 03:50, 30 September 2023 (UTC)

I started the deletion of Wt/ckb. --MF-W {a, b} 23:22, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

Both projects deleted, the other projects created in 2023 will now also be deleted. --MF-W {a, b} 12:40, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

Thx very much. Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 11:06, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

Wp/dcr

iso639-3:dcr is currently classified this language as Extinct, therefore having an Incubator test project violates LPP. As the current residents of Saint John, Saint Thomas, and Saint Croix Islands are only speaking English in their life, there's pointless to still have a Creole which the last speaker deceased for 36 years. --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 10:16, 21 November 2023 (UTC)

Deleted. --MF-W {a, b} 15:29, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

Wp/vot

Alright. After some deliberation, I came to the conclusion that deleting this test wiki is the best course of action. This test wiki looks to be overrun by editors who don't speak the language or know very little of it (some users have even confirmed having low knowledge), and the content itself also looks fairly substandard (several very short articles, several pages having different titles compared to the content, etc.) and the main page looks to be a leftover of the old edits made before around March 2014 that were proven garbage (proof: https://incubator.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Tamara_Ustinova). Considering the difficulty (and frankly, the near impossibility) of finding proficient speaker contributors to fix the content, I don't think there's a better way out of this. Any comments are welcome. 2001:14BB:AC:B137:E9A3:D15F:7BF2:695F 10:15, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

Rather, delete it. It seems that no one who knows the language well has ever appeared in the votWP. It is better to delete it, but not to protect it from creation so that this project can be restarted. Таёжный лес (talk) 18:19, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

Delete. It's the same quality as all the other Wikipedias by the same wiki hijackers that have run rampant over the Finno-Ugric language incubator projects. -Yupik (talk) 02:04, 23 December 2023 (UTC)

To be fair, there could be one editor who has done good edits (User:Heinike), but considering they only have a couple mostly minor edits and didn't edit the main page, which is the biggest problem on the wiki and probably can't be deleted without deleting everything else too, deleting the wiki is still the best course of action in my opinion, as it's also unlikely that they could've fixed everything even on the pages they did edit. I'm sorry for not making this clear earlier, as I wasn't the clearest on the issue. It seems like this matter could need more discussion. 2001:14BB:692:ABDE:5CAD:7F9E:F46A:41E6 12:35, 23 December 2023 (UTC)

Update on the situation: considering the main page has now been deleted, I do not think there's much reason to keep the rest. 2001:14BB:A4:5F8:E804:E151:9A0A:777F 14:11, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

Deleted. --MF-W {a, b} 15:27, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

Wp/sjt

This has been deleted already once and now it is back again. The quality is as brilliant as it was the first time and the person doing this is coming up with an orthography for the language even though one doesn't exist. They're also adding this stuff all over Wiktionary and possibly other projects too. There is no feasible community for this, so I think it should be stripped of its eligibility too. No idea how it verified as eligible in the first place and I have no idea how to go about getting it verified uneligible. - Yupik (talk) 02:21, 23 December 2023 (UTC)

• Neutral, this language has only 2 native speakers by a 2010 census, and I doubt whether both are still able to teach or directly participate contributions here. --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 03:29, 25 December 2023 (UTC)

  @Liuxinyu970226: the language doesn't even have an orthography, so there is no possibility of contributing even if those two wanted to. What has been added here is someone's original research. @MF-Warburg: can something be done about this? - Yupik (talk) 09:45, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

deleted and recreation of pages prevented. @User:Yupik: I suggest starting a discussion on the Langcom list about removing the eligibility. It seems like StevenJ81 added it, thinking the request to be uncontroversial. --MF-W {a, b} 23:25, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

vandalism and ad pages in wp/czh

Vandalism Pages created by not huizhou Chinese speakers: Wp/czh/Cuach ì di, Wp/czh/Dop Niueq, Wp/czh/Giuot ì wia biup, Wp/czh/Niuik Ùm, Wp/czh/Niáy ciuok, Wp/czh/Phyì ew u, Wp/czh/Uch yié u, Wp/czh/Yak á ày, Wp/czh/Zuiep àw, Wp/czh/i zú e, Wp/czh/É luiew, Wp/czh/Én et, Wp/czh/Í yuiy,

game ad pages: Wp/czh/仙劍奇俠傳四, Wp/czh/仙劍奇俠傳系列, Wp/czh/柳夢璃, Wp/czh/雲天河--Crystallus0 (talk) 10:35, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

Deleted. Ninja✮Strikers ^«☎» 15:39, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

Two incubators in Hmong varieties

Tests in two Hmong varieties should be deleted.

• Wp/hmd - has nothing but a boilerplate main page in English.
• Wp/hmg - has only a main page, which appears to be in a kind of Hmong, but it's very short.

I have no prejudice against those languages. It will be easy to recreate those test wikis if people who can write them turn up. --Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 02:17, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

@Amire80: Since this one is pretty much obvious (the test projects are practically empty), I'll be deleting them. Iohanen (Garcez) (talk) 03:41, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

Done, I've also made the Wp/hmd and Wp/hmg into tocreate pages, if someone ever wants to start them again. Iohanen (Garcez) (talk) 03:47, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

Wp/goh

Explained by both rejected RFL and AN discussion, Old High German is a historical language which doesn't in conformity with LPP. As the current form of German is having a continuously developing Wikipedia, there's fully no need to have another copy with a form that deprecated for 900+ years, probably we can ask whether German Wikisource allows import of these contents? --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 23:22, 10 March 2024 (UTC)

It's the same situation as Old Dutch, so I think we need to take the same approach and export it to Incubator Plus. Wikisource won't take it, as these are original texts. --OWTB (talk) 08:28, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

I'm deleting the numerous pages which contain nothing except an image already. --MF-W {a, b} 08:49, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

Perhaps you could add a caption in OHG instead? Rich Farmbrough (talk)

I can live with it if it gets deleted. As an Old High German enthusiast I think it's an interesting project, but if almost nobody contributes, it doesn't make much sense anyway. Pergarius (talk) 17:24, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

Why don't you move it to Incubator Plus 2.0? Jon Gua (talk) 17:27, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

Deleted. Language not eligible, quality of the content questionable --MF-W {a, b} 12:00, 17 September 2024 (UTC)

This section is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, replace this template with your comment. MF-W {a, b} 12:00, 17 September 2024 (UTC)

Wp/igl and Wp/kus

Wp/igl and Wp/kus have already become separate projects. I propose to delete it from Incubator because all meaningful content from this wikis have already been imported. Пан Хаунд 2 (talk) 16:01, 4 June 2024 (UTC)

They were created in April and May, please be patient for August. (But for the same reason, I think Wp/dga, Wp/zgh and Wq/bjn can be? These 3 were created in November of last year) --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 02:41, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

Ok, thank you,

@Liuxinyu970226. I will create another proposal. Пан Хаунд 2 (talk) 16:58, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

I think now we can process both now, as well as Wp/bew & Wt/kaa. Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 03:43, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

This section is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, replace this template with your comment. MF-W {a, b} 12:01, 17 September 2024 (UTC)

Wp/dga, Wq/bjn and Wp/zgh

I propose to remove those wikis from Incubator because they were imported to their own sites and created a long time ago. Пан Хаунд 2 (talk) 17:01, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

cc @Sotiale. I don't think this needs to be requested here. 1234qwer1234qwer4 (talk) 02:23, 26 August 2024 (UTC)

I think.. my ping function is not working properly. I checked this and will check and address it in the next few days. --Sotiale (talk) 01:45, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

It looks like it's mostly done. --Sotiale (talk) 02:28, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

Thank you, @Sotiale. Could you also delete Wp/igl and wp/kus that were successfully launched in the spring of 2024. Пан Хаунд 2 (talk) 19:15, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

This section is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, replace this template with your comment. MF-W {a, b} 12:01, 17 September 2024 (UTC)

Wp/kyu

Explained by @Nguyên Hưng Trần:, pages created only by a random set of IP vandals to promote nonsense English translations of other pages. --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 03:14, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

Keep, but delete all the pages (except Wp/kyu/ꤒꤟꤢꤧ꤬ꤡꤢꤓꤛꤢ꤬ ꤜꤤ꤬ꤕꤜꤢꤧ꤬ and Wp/kyu/꤂꤀꤂꤄, which are re-translated to Western Kayah by me, using this dictionary). – Nguyên Hưng Trần (talk) 08:25, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

@Nguyên Hưng Trần Why not re-start this project instead? Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 04:31, 17 June 2024 (UTC)

@Liuxinyu970226: Hmm... That's a good idea. – Nguyên Hưng Trần (talk) 06:04, 17 June 2024 (UTC)

This section is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, replace this template with your comment. MF-W {a, b} 07:41, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

Wp/lua

Most of the pages on the project, are small, and look like test page. –TANBIRUZZAMAN (💬) 12:16, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

@Tanbiruzzaman but come on, please, this shouldn’t lead to a quick proposal for deletion of the Wp/lua category because no one said it was over. The project, like all others, is ongoing. We are working on it little by little, even though we lack contributors in this language. Why not observe it for another 3 months? Besides, you’ll see that users come later to do maintenance on articles. After all this time since the project was launched and barely active, you’d rather throw in a shocking comment, perhaps ignoring the efforts made to get to this stage? Thank you, that’s my humble opinion. CapitainAfrika (talk) 20:56, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

Bonjour Monsieur,@Tanbiruzzaman

Je vous remercie pour vos remarques. Cependant, je tiens à souligner qu'une décision précipitée ne serait pas judicieuse dans ce contexte. Nous avons mobilisé et sensibilisé une communauté entière de bénévoles, qui ont accepté de participer à ce projet non seulement par engagement, mais aussi parce qu'ils souhaitent promouvoir leurs langues, qui sont souvent minoritaires. En particulier, le Tshiluba, une langue parlée au centre de la République Démocratique du Congo, dans une région confrontée à des défis majeurs tels que l'accès limité à l'électricité et à Internet.

Ces participants se sont investis dans ce projet malgré ces contraintes, et il est essentiel de prendre en compte ces efforts avant toute prise de décision. Il est également important de rappeler que nous n'avons pas encore terminé le projet. Comme pour tout article de Wikipédia, des modifications peuvent encore être apportées. Une équipe est déjà prévue pour assurer le suivi des articles après leur publication afin de garantir leur qualité et leur conformité.

Je crois qu'une réflexion plus approfondie et des discussions concertées seraient bénéfiques pour maintenir l'élan et l'engagement de cette communauté. Shayi ngolu (talk) 21:59, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

That is not a reason for deleting it. This is a small project that is being developed bit by bit. Jon Gua (talk) 06:46, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

The project is highly active, there are many articles, this deletion proposal makes no sense. --MF-W {a, b} 07:44, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

Merci pour l'arrêt du processus, nous allons faire le suivi et publier tout les article test Christalia (talk) 09:29, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

There're lot of articles, that's correct, but as I've said most of the articles ar created as test or looks like test pages. However, per CapitainAfrika and Shayi ngolu, I've withdrawn my proposal. –TANBIRUZZAMAN (💬) 08:19, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

Bonjour Monsieur , entant que l'une de contributrice de ce projet, le supprimé serait perçu comme un problème personnel que vous avait contre ce projet, a ce que je sache tout les projets ont toujours eu un début difficile , le tshiluba particulièrement est un projet que nous avons à cœur , nous fournissons beaucoup d'effort malgré les difficultés de crées des articles , qui sont selon vous court ou test , pour la simple raison que nous finissons l'article test et l'exportons en articles a publié lorsque nous l'avons fini en se rassurant des sources et toutes les conditions à respecter. alors tant que vous ne donnez pas une raison valable pour supprimer ce projet je considère que vous le faite de manière personnel et cela nous désolerai beaucoup Christalia (talk) 09:16, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

You misunderstood, I've no personal issues with the project. I don’t even understand the language or never contributed to the project. As you can see I've withdrawn my proposal. –TANBIRUZZAMAN (💬) 09:20, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

ok , merci pour l'arrêt du processus, nous allons faire ce suivi et publier tout les articles test , sans rancune en tout ca Christalia (talk) 09:31, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

Bjr@Tanbiruzzaman,

Merci pour votre observation, nous sommes une communauté qui vient de naître avec tout les pleines d'un nouveau projet comme vous le savez bien,

En effet, le projet n'etait pas facile a exécuté vu tout le difficulté que traverse notre pays et pas appuie mais nous nous sommes concentre avec nos faibles moyens enfin d'activer ce projet.

Comme, vous le savez nous sommes toujours actifs dans nos projets sur wiki, étant donné que nous sommes au début de avec ce projet nous avons une forte conviction que ce projet évoluera très bien dans le prochain jour le temps que nos communautés lua s'habitue avec, nous vous rassurons que vous serez étonnés de contacte l'évolution.

Merci de donner chance a ce nouveau projet de bien évoluer. Mpoyijeanine (talk) 10:53, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

This section was archived on a request by: –TANBIRUZZAMAN (💬) 11:05, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

Wp/ctg

Given the ongoing disputes and lack of consensus over the use of specialized scripts and orthographic conventions for the Chittagonian Wikipedia project, it is evident that the orthography has not achieved the necessary academic recognition or community agreement to move forward effectively. The disagreements over orthography and language representation, coupled with the lack of standardization and approval, have hindered progress and led to confusion among contributors. Therefore, it is proposed to close the Chittagonian Wikipedia project at this time, with the possibility of reopening it in the future should there be a unified approach and academic validation for the proposed scripts and standards. For additional context, please see the conversation from two years ago: Talk:Wp/ctg/মুল ফাতা. --ꠢꠣꠍꠘ ꠞꠣꠎꠣ (talk) 08:47, 28 August 2024 (UTC)

Comment If the users of the Wiki aren't able to reach consensus, why not vote in which orthography/script convention to use? It's more probable that the most used script and orthography will win, so that most speakers will benefit of it. I don't know the actual situation though, but I think this is most recommended.

Also, Wp/ctg hasn't seen enough activity in at least a year, what would be the point of closing (or deleting as this page indicates) it? Iohanen (Garcez) (talk) 20:03, 28 August 2024 (UTC)

Given the Chittagonian Wikipedia’s inactivity for years, there’s no active community to vote on orthography or scripts. The CTG script lacks academic backing, and the Bengali script doesn’t fit the language’s needs. With no interest from either community, which community is this project open for, and how is Wikimedia (Langcom) conducting the test, considering the project is essentially abandoned -- ꠢꠣꠍꠘ ꠞꠣꠎꠣ (talk) 05:58, 29 August 2024 (UTC)

Oppose A project being abandoned doesn't seem (to me) to be sufficient reason to delete it. Although the script is not fit, lacks academic backing and can't be chosen by now, whenever it is possible to do so, the old content pages may be transferred to this script. There's no need to actually close the project, or even delete it, since this could happen at any point in time.

With that said, I'm still open to opinions ;)

Best regards, Iohanen (Garcez) (talk) 15:19, 29 August 2024 (UTC)

Oppose per Iohanen. Rich Farmbrough (talk)

Since no other administrator has decided on this until now, I'll mark it as Not done for now. Iohanen (Garcez) (talk) 01:15, 15 October 2024 (UTC)

This section was archived on a request by: Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 07:05, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

Wp/akk

As per the rejected RFL page, having a test project in this extinct language violates LPP, and since there are only selected spam pages created by LTAs, I think just nuke it would be enough, no need to migrate to other websites (e.g. Incubator Plus). --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 00:15, 12 October 2024 (UTC)

Support. There is no point in the existence of this project. Таёжный лес (talk) 19:06, 12 October 2024 (UTC)

Deleted. Ninja✮Strikers ^«☎» 03:43, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

This section was archived on a request by: Ninja✮Strikers ^«☎» 03:46, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

Wp/aer

I deleted the request for this Wikipedia because it was created by a blocked user. There is very little content in the Incubator, and it looks suspect. Unless someone is sure that it's good, it should probably be deleted here. The language is probably eligible, but it should be done by serious people who actually know the language. Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 23:24, 20 October 2024 (UTC)

Agree to delete, maybe Wb/fur, Wy/fur, Wt/lvk and Wt/tet are likely. --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 02:56, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

Deleted Ninja✮Strikers ^«☎» 03:50, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

This section was archived on a request by: Ninja✮Strikers ^«☎» 03:50, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

Wp/kjg

No content whatsoever. Just an invitation to contribute on the "main page" in English, Lao, French, and Hmong, and the user who created doesn't seem to know the language and doesn't reply to questions. It's better to start from scratch. Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 16:54, 25 October 2024 (UTC)

Neutral, 708,000 in Laos, 90,600 in Vietnam, 10,600 in Thailand... Can't we find an expert in the affected area for developing contributors' community? Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 23:52, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

Done. Iohanen (Garcez) (talk) 21:35, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

This section was archived on a request by: Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 23:59, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

Wp/plk

Nothing but a "main page" with several invalid templates. Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 17:05, 25 October 2024 (UTC)

Support. In addition, these templates are written in Urdu. Таёжный лес (talk) 19:38, 27 October 2024 (UTC)

Neutral there are 477,000 speakers and it's increasing, same situation on kls. Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 23:55, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

Done. Iohanen (Garcez) (talk) 21:41, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

This section was archived on a request by: Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 23:59, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

Wt/dcr

Project in an extinct language, with all articles written in English. Wp/dcr has already been deleted. Таёжный лес (talk) 18:18, 25 October 2024 (UTC)

Support - Per nom. Wheatley2 (talk) 04:21, 26 October 2024 (UTC)

Done. Iohanen (Garcez) (talk) 21:29, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

This section was archived on a request by: Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 23:59, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

Wp/myr

There are only two pages there, made by the same user, and I strongly suspect that all the content there is not actually in this language, but simply a mix of English words and gibberish pretending to be this language. The same user also made a few contributions to the Russian Wikipedia and disappeared. I suspect that the proposal on Meta and the whole Wp/myr incubator is a hoax. Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 11:53, 5 October 2024 (UTC)

Delete, more likely there is 0% of these two articles in this language. They've apparently just taken random letters and used them, because the alphabet here on page 6 states this is the alphabet used with the language:

a, ch, ç, d, e, f, g, h, i, j, k, ky, l, m, n, ñ, p, r, s, sh, t, ts, tz, u, ü, w, y, zh, '

The same alphabet is used in other documents by this project[1][2].

The Peruvian government states it doesn't even have an official alphabet in "El pueblo no cuenta con un alfabeto oficial por el Ministerio de Educación." and "A la fecha, la lengua muniche no cuenta con un alfabeto oficializado por el Ministerio de Educación ni es usada en instituciones educativas EIB." But this states: "Alfabeto oficial – Se encuentra en proceso de normalización." This latter source has a wealth of information on the sociolinguistic situation of the language and its speakers.

Here are some links to other Munichi resources:[3][4]

- Yupik (talk) 22:05, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

Delete, as there are no L1 speakers living per Ethnologue, there's no hope that somebody can contribute it seriously. Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 23:21, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

Deleted. Ninja✮Strikers ^«☎» 14:18, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

This section was archived on a request by: Ninja✮Strikers ^«☎» 14:18, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

Wp/nio

For 15 years of its existence, in the project hasn't been written even a single article in Nganasan. There are only three one-word pages in the project — Колё, Муӈку and Бăӈ, as well as a page Холё consisting of five words of gibberish. The main page is written half in Russian, half in English. Таёжный лес (talk) 04:51, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

Tend to delete, has only 50 native speakers, so I don't strongly hope that there could have a serious contributor from em. Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 23:23, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

Deleted. Ninja✮Strikers ^«☎» 14:16, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

This section was archived on a request by: Ninja✮Strikers ^«☎» 14:16, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

Wp/chk/Main Page

No meanful contents, probably a graffiti page about their spam plans, the RFL page for its language used has also deleted recently. Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 13:32, 24 October 2024 (UTC)

Indeed, this should be deleted. There is nothing there. Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 05:07, 25 October 2024 (UTC)

Deleted. Ninja✮Strikers ^«☎» 14:10, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

This section was archived on a request by: Ninja✮Strikers ^«☎» 14:10, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

Wn/mnc, Wy/mnc, Wb/gld, Wb/oaa, Wb/ulc, Wb/evn, Wb/neg, Wb/orh, Wb/oac and Wb/ude

Per above section, the creator said to withdraw these placeholder only pages which that user currently don't have interests in starting projects. --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 03:02, 31 October 2024 (UTC)

Support deletion. Таёжный лес (talk) 06:53, 31 October 2024 (UTC)

Delete. MiiCii 05:22, 31 October 2024 (UTC)

Deleted. Ninja✮Strikers ^«☎» 14:08, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

This section was archived on a request by: Ninja✮Strikers ^«☎» 14:08, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

Wt/sco

Already exists as sco:Define:Main Page imported from Incubator, but somehow the test wiki lingered and wasn't deleted. Pppery (talk) 00:12, 5 October 2024 (UTC)

{{Support}} as the project already exists in scowikipedia. Пан Хаунд 2 (talk) 18:13, 20 October 2024 (UTC)

Support - I had no idea there was already a Scots Wiktionary in scowiki. Now that I know, I support the deletion. Wheatley2 (talk) 04:16, 26 October 2024 (UTC)

Deleted, a file of the content can be sent upon request. --MF-W {a, b} 10:12, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

This section is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, replace this template with your comment. MF-W {a, b} 10:12, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Wp/yur

Practically all the pages here were made by a banned user, and they have almost no content. The language can be eligible for a Wikipedia, because there is a successful revitalization project for it in real life, but it's better to start it from scratch. Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 02:42, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

Delete It's an extinct language, so having it violates LPP. Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 05:01, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

Support deletion of the content-less project. Таёжный лес (talk) 09:53, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

Deleted. Ninja✮Strikers ^«☎» 13:49, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

This section was archived on a request by: Ninja✮Strikers ^«☎» 13:49, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

Wp/kyh

There is no written content in the claimed language at all except the page titles, and it's unclear where do those titles come from, given that the pages' creator doesn't claim to know the language. Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 16:03, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

Delete Only 12 L1 speakers per Ethnologue, so generally no hope for any serious contributors. Maybe the m:Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Karuk (On hold at the moment) should also be either deleted or rejected as well. Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 23:08, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

Support deletion of the content-less project. Таёжный лес (talk) 10:56, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Deleted. Ninja✮Strikers ^«☎» 13:58, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

This section was archived on a request by: Ninja✮Strikers ^«☎» 13:58, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

Wp/gmy

Long dead language, no active contributors or any meaningful content. 5.183.29.175 11:36, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

Definitely Support deletion as an ancient language wiki. Таёжный лес (talk) 19:22, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

Deleted Ninja✮Strikers ^«☎» 15:07, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

This section was archived on a request by: Ninja✮Strikers ^«☎» 15:07, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Subpages of Wn/ang (SPEEDY DELETE)

Old English Wikinews is rejected 176.220.132.171 08:22, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

Delete As an extinct language, this project violates LPP. --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 13:07, 28 December 2024 (UTC)

Deleted. Ninja✮Strikers ^«☎» 03:34, 12 January 2025 (UTC)

This section was archived on a request by: Ninja✮Strikers ^«☎» 03:34, 12 January 2025 (UTC)

Wp/mjx

Hii respect to all, over the period our language is more or less similar with santali people . It is Ok if our language is told as santali. But the whole world knows our language is not a language it is a dialect. But still if any one will ask me what my language is I wll say Mahali. It is Good to see mahali wikipeida but I am not happy with its version in Roman. It should be never in Roman Please, it should be in Bengali or Devnagari. I dont Know why it is being done for Roman script. I dont go for deletion of project but change the script , we should have devnagari or bengali. One more thing why in the home page it is written Ho̠ṛ Wikipiḍia being the proud mahale I am mahale I dont want to be Hor, Hor it means santali or Ho. I am neither of them. Please change it to Mahali Wikipedia. is it controlled by santali people or Mahali people. I also dont understand why some santals are so much interested in this Wikipedia that too in roman. RameshMahali2024 (talk) 15:46, 11 October 2024 (UTC)

If the version continues in Roman, the project should be deleted soon. Wikipedia sholuld find appropriate mahali people to start this projectRameshMahali2024 (talk) 15:50, 11 October 2024 (UTC)

Dear admin,

wm/mjx/ incubator is the page of our language MAHALI. Why the requestor of Santari language want to make delete wm/mjx/ incubator page is greek to us. Santaṛs have their own Santaṛi wikipedia.

We Mahali also want our own wikipedia.

2409:408A:2CB5:212D:7C3A:B3E5:7849:CE28 07:57, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

"wm/" isn't a valid prefix. wp/mjx has not been deleted, merely proposed for deletion. Pppery (talk) 16:14, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

For everyone, language and its script is a very sensitive matter like you, I and others. In this case our Santali language and its script is also holds that much of respect and responsibilities to protect and preserve for our next generations. We love to express our expression in our mother tongue and mother script. While someone wants to mix-up one language with another script is not healthy for a language. Hope you understand the sentiments of the language community.

Also I want to enclose some prominent universities where other than language papers are taught in Santali language and its script called "Ol Chiki".

https://www.srcmujhargram.ac.in/academic/ and https://www.bankurauniv.ac.in/get-page-details-sub-category-item/centre-for-santali-studies/programmes-offered/12

Indian highest literary award called Sahitya Academy also provided to Santali literature in its script called Ol Chiki. So there is no need of special status to Mahali dialect. You can't distinguish them by saying Santali language and Mahali language.

I hope you understand whole thing regarding it and take necessary steps for better future of the development of Santali Language and their script. If you have any queries or required more detailed clarification regarding this, please feel free to ask.

Thanks,

ᱯᱨᱚᱯᱷᱮᱥᱥᱚᱨ | ⌨️ | 02:14, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

I've renamed this section accordingly, also moved their rationale for “speedy deletion” (which I also don't believe that this project meets any SD rationales) --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 17:31, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

I couldn't really understand what is going on here. If this is merely a matter of script usage, I think this is better discussed under Wp/mjx (and, if needed, voted). I won't be dealing with the Wp/mjx speedy deletion requests for now, since they cover practically all of the test project and they regard this discussion. Iohanen (Garcez) (talk) 20:01, 12 October 2024 (UTC)

Although it is connected more or less with script, but most important discussion of it is how many projects will we run in Wikipedia. If more than one project runs in one platform reduce trust among the readers and not healthy for any language like Santali which is officially written in Santali script called "Ol Chiki". I and Santali language communities strongly condemning the continuation of this project. I strongly proposing to delete this project.

Thanks,

ᱯᱨᱚᱯᱷᱮᱥᱥᱚᱨ | ⌨️ | 08:40, 13 October 2024 (UTC)

To protect the integrity of Santali language and their script. Because these days Santali script called "Ol Chiki" is most prominent among the community and few Lutheran Churches may using Latin script but not in formal setup. Here are two links as evidence http://lisindia.ciil.org/Santali/Santali_script.html and https://www.sentinelassam.com/story/north-east-india-news/assam-news/assam-cabinet-decision-govt-to-introduce-santhali-language-in-schools-650237 . According to indian census and linguistics Mahali is a dialect of Santali language. I hope, you delete this page as soon as possible. , with ᱯᱨᱚᱯᱷᱮᱥᱥᱚᱨ | ⌨️ | 06:27, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

I am going through some of these incubator articles, most of the articles (90%) are copy and pest from Santali Wikipedia only difference is they converted it in Roman script. Mahali is the dialect of Santali.¹ and this dialect are written in Ol Chiki and Bangla Script also, most of the mahali people in India use these two script.² so first of all resolve the script issues. And if you continue this project with copy paste method then I think there is no need for separate project. ᱥᱟᱹᱜᱩᱱ ᱗ (talk) 03:15, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

• I also really don't know what's the actual problems here. If we are considering Mahali as just a dialect of Santali, then as well as there are lack of reasons why Mahali speakers are lacking mutual communications with Santali speakers, Wp/mjx shouldn't exist and their speakers can just join sat:, but if the Mahali speakers can provide evidences why their lingua franca is different from Santali (Remember: just have a different ISO code isn't enough due to Filipino (fil) case, as it's just considered as legal name of Tagalog (tl)), then why not keeping mjx? --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 03:18, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

  Keep. This proposed deletion doesn't indicate a good reason to delete a whole Incubator. Mahali may or may not be distinct from Santali, and until we are sure, we should assume good faith and not delete it. I cannot see anything in the Incubator content that makes me doubt the sincere intentions of its authors.

  According to the current practice, a much better place to discuss such things is a page with a request for a new language on Meta. It looks like such a page doesn't exist for Mahali at the moment. It should probably be created, using the instructions at m:Language committee/Handbook (requesters). Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 05:10, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

  @Amire80 I would instead to consider supporting delete this, based on ᱥᱟᱹᱜᱩᱱ ᱗ above that articles are most likely copy-pasted just from satwiki, this situation gave me another prs panorama, where Dari is just the legal name of Persian language in Afghanistan, but someone who claim from there started with copy-pasting fawiki and just rename "Persian" to "Dari" for their language name. Thus, I would guess Mahali is just a village-given name of Santali language, means, only one or two villages call Santali as "Mahali". Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 01:58, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

  I've looked at several articles, and while some of them indeed looked similar to the corresponding Santali articles, they didn't looked completely copied and transliterated. In addition, the claim that Glottolog confirms that Mahali is a dialect of Santali is misleading, because that's exactly the opposite of what Glottolog actually says. @Liuxinyu970226, if you don't actually know this language, please don't make accusations based on guesses.

  If anyone is still certain that most of those articles are just Santali that is transliterated from Ol Chiki into Latin, please provide more detailed examples. Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 02:21, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

  @Amire80 So in your opinion, we should re-allow Wp/fil for "Filipino" and Wp/prs for "Dari", right? That said, copy-pasting contents from existing Wikipedias without providing attributions, are also considered as copyvio, this is confirmed per several meta RFCs, e.g. this one. Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 04:10, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

  I didn't say anything like that. Please stop making nonsensical accusations. Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 04:57, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

  @Amire80 Anyway, if the only difference is script usage, why not consider mw:LanguageConverter instead? There are already dozens of wikis have pages in different scripts, and about half of them are having this support, so when possible, why not consider deploying Ol Chiki-Roman converter instead? By this way no new wikis are needed. Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 23:23, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

  As I already said, the place to discuss this is not the deletion proposals page on the

  Incubator, but the language proposal page on Meta. Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 12:00, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

  @Amire80 If all of what you want is just a RFL page for Mahali, I asked these contributors for a possible creation, but they all didn't response on it, so are you really wanna such a page instead of here? If yes, then really, I will create it. Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 03:38, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

  A request to create a wiki in a language should be created by people who know that language and who want to request the creation of that wiki. If you don't know that language or people who speak this language, then you shouldn't create a request. Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 03:56, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

  @Amire80 Then please also reject the Xibe request, that's also created by non-speaker. If you won't reject and/or delete that request, then I don't see why I can't do so. On the opposite, if the contributor hates to request, then why are you forcing them to create so? Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 03:59, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

  I am not forcing anyone to do anything. I yet again ask you to stop making nonsensical accusations. Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 04:29, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

  Okay, you didn't force. So let's just continue discussing here, as said, there's no need to create a RFL at the moment, as whether those contributors are indeed and seriously contributing didn't seem to have a consensus. And it's unclear who nominated the deletion, is that one indeed ᱯᱨᱚᱯᱷᱮᱥᱥᱚᱨ? Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 04:38, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Against deleting this project. The fact that it is a dialect is not a reason, there are several Wikipedias on dialects. According to Ethnologue, the language uses Latin script. Even if it is not very different from Santali, we should allow its speakers to write in Latin (the converter does not allow this). --Danvintius Bookix (talk) 10:14, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

@Danvintius Bookix Why do you think "the converter does not allow this"? If the only reason to create a new project with separate code is "to write in Latin", then Serbian, Kurdish, Kazakh, ... etc should also seek for a separate project written in Latin. Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 10:40, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

You can write only on one script with a converter. In Serbian and Kazakh Wikipedia they write only in Cyrillic, in (Northern) Kurdish - in Latin. No, this is the only reason to create a new project. The reason is that there is a code and the language is apparently different. Look at azbwiki - it is Azerbaijani language, but in Arabic script. Kazakh Latin, Serbian Latin don′t have code, because it is a simple transliteration. --Danvintius Bookix (talk) 11:43, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

@Danvintius Bookix"In Serbian and Kazakh Wikipedia they write only in Cyrillic"?! Then why I can find [5], [6], ... on srwiki? Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 12:35, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

Also, if "The reason is that there is a code and the language is apparently different.", then we don't need shwiki, as Bosnian, Croatian, Serbian and Montenegrin, all 4 member of the Serbo-Croatian macrolanguage are having their codes, and their speakers said "apparently different" based just on orthographies, then what's the purpose of m:Croatian Wikipedia Disinformation Assessment-2021? Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 12:39, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

Ok, you are right about the Serbian Wikipedia (I did′t know it). But there are still very few articles in Latin. The Kazakh Wikipedia only has Cyrillic. The Serbo-Croatian Wikipedia, as far as I understand, is an exception, it was decided to keep it, although it no longer complies with the current rules. --Danvintius Bookix (talk) 13:19, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

Not done. Articles with speedy deletion requests will have those requests removed. Iohanen (Garcez) (talk) 22:13, 18 January 2025 (UTC)

This section was archived on a request by: Iohanen (Garcez) (talk) 22:14, 18 January 2025 (UTC)

Wp/arq

It is evident that this project has been unsuccessful. Dialects cannot be regarded as complete languages due to the absence of established grammatical rules. In Algeria, different regions speak different dialects.

The lack of quality content and properly sourced articles is apparent, with users often duplicating information from other wikis or even themselves. Despite my initial involvement and support for the project, I no longer endorse it. The project has failed to gain momentum over the years. The same situation occurred with the Egyptian version, which was promoted as a Wikipedia versions that would compete with other wikis. However, it did not live up to that expectation, featuring nonsensical articles, lack of notability, a shortage of users, absence of involved admins, and extensive copy-pasting from the Arabic Wikipedia. Moreover, due to the variations in dialects, individuals from different points in Egypt struggle to understand each other if they use their pure dialects. While efforts have been made to keep these projects alive, there is a reality that cannot be ignored. Riad Salih (talk) 03:48, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

As a neutral observer I must note that inactivity is not a valid reason to delete a test wiki. Neither is the things that have happened on wikis of related languages.

Duplicating contents, and especially unsourced, however, can be a valid reason. For that, I advise you to give us concrete examples. --OWTB (talk) 12:53, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

To fully comprehend the distinctions, one must engage with the Algerian dialect, as it differs from Algerian Arabic. Often, individuals mistakenly conflate a language with a somewhat dialect and a dialect with mere variations. Linguists possess the ability to differentiate between these linguistic categories. However, due to the limited number of contributors involved in such projects, which predominantly operate in obscurity, people are generally unaware of their existence. Consequently, we rely on ISO standards to validate the legitimacy of a language, as there is no significant opposition.

The articles use a mix of dialect, and if you read a single article, you will be confused by the dialect used. For example, take Wp/arq/باب لواد. If a real reader from Algeria reads this, they will probably laugh. And what's the purpose of citing Wikipedia French as a reference? The same goes for "Wp/arq/مناضميّات." Do Algerians use مناضميّات to refer to Computer Science? No, it's clear they just fill the article to boost the numbers and try to gain validation.

Dezedien is the only person here trying to push this project and make it real without any support from real contributors. The case of the Maghreb region in North Africa is different from Spanish as an exemple, which has different dialects as versions.

Even the reasons he is citing below are nonsensical, to say the least. Leaving a legacy to scholars or linguists? For that, there are press articles in newspapers, YouTube videos, etc. "A source of work for the scientific community" seriously? Can he give us some examples to support his point of view?

All the content was pushed to be added just to bring the version, making a profit from the absence of Algerian contributions. It's random content without any quality, simply copied and translated from French and Arabic articles, mostly by students who never contribute again outside of their university courses. Riad Salih (talk) 01:20, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

w:en:A language is a dialect with an army and navy is a standard proverb among linguists. There is no bright line between language and dialect; the word w:en:lect was invented by linguists to avoid approaching the question. See also w:en:dialect for endless text on the subject.--Prosfilaes (talk) 02:08, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

KEEP : I apologize, @Riad Salih, for any inconvenience caused by the difficulty you may be experiencing in transcribing the dialect you use daily.

Firstly, it is important to clarify that the initiators and those who have renewed this project aim to promote and preserve Algerian Arabic, which already exists in various forms, much like English, French, and Spanish. This project is the result of several initiatives, the most recent being the participation of 300 students from the University of Chlef in translating articles from Arabic to Algerian.

It is understandable that there may be inconsistencies and similarities with the Arabic language, as Algerian is considered Algerian Arabic.

It is important to acknowledge that

The goal may not necessarily be to...

- Create a new language (it already exists)

- Compete with another language (it's evolving on its own)

- Create the same number of articles as wikipedia Arabic or English

- Create quality articles - content is in its beginning stages

This project is mainly intended to

- A source of work for the scientific community

- Educators and linguists looking for texts in Algerian

- Propose and not impose an spelling for writing Algerian

- Leave a documented, digitized source of Algerian spoken language for future generations

Each project has its own community and its own pace of development.

It is important to avoid putting this project in competition, because it does not belong to the same category.

The Egyptian Wikipedia has been much and wrongly compared to the Arabic Wikipedia.

and this century-old debate and I do not recommend eliminating it, you are trying to destroy the effort of many volunteers.

If you have any concerns regarding this project, please do not hesitate to voice them. otherwise let the other volunteers continue its development. It has been in hibernation for quite a while because the team preferred to rethink the strategy by developing the Wiktionary this year while adopting a good spelling to allow us to rediscover the richness of Algerian and develop articles in complete coherence with Algerian.

hope it will be good for you. Dezedien (talk) 13:30, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

Delete, Initially, you were strongly opposed to this version, and now you changed your position. Well, it will be a failure like other projects. This is a nonsensical project. English, French, and Arabic have already a very few Algerian contributors, and you expect variations of dialects that are not mutually intelligible to produce good articles undestanble from all the Algerians.

Please tell that the students from universities in Chlef, Mostaganem, and other places were not actively creating articles but primarily engaged in translating French articles. They were compelled to do so as part of their university assignments, leaving them with no choice but to fulfil this obligation. It would be worth investigating the current status of contributors from these students, both for the French Wikipedia and the Algerian Wikipedia. However, it appears that the number of active contributors from this group is currently zero.

These are dialect versions and not Algerian Arabic is it is promoted, which can confuse people here. The Algerian dialect is mixed with French, Spanish, Turkish, and other words that do not belong to Arabic.

Moreover, if you look at the articles here, most of them are translated by some Moroccans with a clear Moroccan dialect, using words that never belonged to Algerian society, just to push for the existence of an Algerian Wikipedia, similar to what happened with the Moroccan version. This resulted in a degradation of language and knowledge and the quality of articles. They even ended up translating scholarly citations and quotes, which makes no sense.

Wikipédia has a universal vocation, as it is one of its founding principles. However, any project with a weak foundation is destined to decline. n Algerian Wikipedia will become a nationalist encyclopedia, leading to conflicts among contributors. It will end up being an encyclopedia without quality content, and its potential for growth is so limited. To gain a better understanding, you can verify the the Moroccan version.

In the end, you are alleging that I am responsible for destroying the efforts of many volunteers, an accusation that is both unfair and unacceptable. I choose not to engage in a response to this statement as it surpasses the assumption of good faith. Regards Riad Salih (talk) 21:12, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

Chère @Riad Salih

Please refrain from telling only real, proven facts, without peddling or facts that never happened.

I'm really surprised to read your last message full of false accusations.

I will answer a few points, I respect your opinion, I just ask you to respect the opinions of others and not pretend and say what is not.

- You say for me what I didn't say, where did you get that?

- You accuse the university and the teacher of imposing a job on the students when you haven't even been to Chlef or discussed the program with a single person.

- Your theory about Algerian is questionable, it's exactly what happens with Amazigh and it's the only way to transfer knowledge with Algerian.

- You want to divert the discussion to words like nationalism, and that's wrong, but it's a purely neutral project aimed at linguists.

take a look at this page she the work of Said Tadjer

he offered us a dictionary of 2500 words in Algerian he wrote all the hortograph rules to write in Algerian we are just waiting for the right moment to add them to wikidata and wiktionnair we did it with only 1000 words

https://web.facebook.com/groups/425268594189148/?_rdc=1&_rdr

Finally, I'd like to invite you to a discussion about Algerian. If you agree, we can organize a meeting on googlemeet/zoom and I'll invite university professors who teach Algerian in Canada/Italy/France and Algeria.

regard

Their work is currently serving AI and now you want to suppress it.

I'm really sorry, compare this to the destruction of books in the Middle Ages.

Let this project develop at its own rhythm . Dezedien (talk) 15:32, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

My proposal is to retain this project while removing and revising the current articles that are of subpar quality. This is the only solution to preserve this project. If the problem is related to the quality of the articles, we will carry out a total verification. The quality, quantity, and number of articles are not significant, but if the quantity exceeds 1000 articles, we will revisit all of them. This will allow us to set up a system of quality control for the articles and ensure the project can continue for future editors. We are seeking contributors for this improvement project to transcribe Algerian derdja for quality studies and to transcribe Algerian content using local languages and dialects. It is important to note that this project is not intended to compete with other languages, particularly Arabic, nor is it meant to create a new language. Rather, it aims to document existing knowledge using local languages and dialects. Dezedien (talk) 11:11, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

Hi back,

I am myself concerned with sociolinguistics and the differences between languages and dialects, If you wish to engage in a discussion, I welcome your linguists to participate and share their perspectives here.

It is not about competition with Arabic. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a place to test if a dialect can stand on its own and be standardized as a language. ISO isn't a way to argue that it is a full language.

The case of Algeria is very complex. We have two sociolinguistic phenomena: bilingualism (French, Arabic, English, Berber) and diglossia (two varieties of languages exist side by side throughout the community), which is mostly the case here. We have a high variety (Standard Arabic) and a low variety (Darija - Algerian Arabic). Low varieties can't be used in this context since they are auto-implemented for low purposes in Algerian society and not for learning, writing, or searching… etc. In high-context fields, Algerians use the official languages.

I'm really sorry, but comparing this to the destruction of books in the Middle Ages is a joke, and you are using sentiments in this debate when I'd prefer to see facts. Algerian Arabic dictionaries and such aren't real arguments to have a full version here on Wikipedia. Even during French colonization, they did write dictionaries, and I can share many here.

Most of the content created here (mainly from random contributors who have no clue and are mainly students from Chlef and Mostaganem, pushed by a French contributor whom you know) is of low quality, as it's often copied and pasted. For example, full French text is copied and pasted here and these contributors rarely participate further on Wikipedia to not say never

The French, Arabic, and English versions of Wikipedia do not have more than six active Algerian contributors. It is incorrect to assume that a small national version, which lacks a clear language due to the various regional dialects in Algeria (which do not possess all the characteristics of a distinct language), would have a significant encyclopedic impact and attract readers. This situation is ironic considering the linguistic paysage present in the country. There is also Algerian French, but it does not have a full version on its own, and the same goes for other variations such as Canadian French, etc.

If you have a specific connection to Algerian Arabic, that's acceptable. You can work on creating dictionaries, sharing content on other platforms, and so on. However, Wikipedia is intended for encyclopedic purposes and is not the appropriate place for conducting such tests. It is not a laboratory for linguists to standardize a dialect into a language that lacks the necessary criteria for use in encyclopedic settings.

Best regards. Riad Salih (talk) 16:40, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for your reply, I consider it a kind refusal to participate in this meeting, no problem.

for the experimentation i'm not talking about the algerian because it really exists, i'm talking about testing the real utility of transcribing the algerian that is in him real.

Having said that, I'm not undermining the use of Algerian in the official sphere, because you don't realize that it's Algerian that everyone uses everywhere. Do you think that shopkeepers speak classic Algerian in the market?

you can even find official documents dating from the Spanish period and even from the emir abdelkader written in algerian. the government of the french ocupation used algerian to communicate,

all marketing publicity, whether private or public, uses only the Algerian language.

don't tell me otherwise. it's easy to contradict yourself.

i haven't contributed to this project for more than 5 years, because i'm currently busy with other tasks. i'm going to clean up the articles that need to be deleted.

Be careful, it's a project like any other, it's in its infancy and needs more promotion and explanation to help people understand the real purpose of this work.

let's be clear, it's indisputable to deny that algerian is spoken by more than 60 million people, when we see languages spoken by less than 1 million people with their own wiki project. Dezedien (talk) 17:19, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

In Algeria, Standard Arabic is recognized as the prestigious form of language used in education, administration, and academic research. Society adheres to these linguistic norms. On the other hand, Algerian Arabic, which you refer to is the lower variety, is employed in informal contexts such as coffee shops, supermarkets, and everyday conversations. Different regions in Algeria exhibit other variations, such as the Oranee Dialectal language (OrandD), We have no standard Algerian Arabic.

Algerian Arabic cannot be considered a codified language, it is primarily regarded as a variation of Arabic (dialect) with very restricted and limited usage in formal settings.

60 million people speak Algerian dialect, not Algerian Arabic (which is linguistically speaking the Colloquial Arabic of Algeria). There are Arabophone, Francophone, and Amazigh speakers in Algeria. Reliable sources are needed to prove your claims.

As mentioned before, there are many varieties of French (Canadian, Algerian, Moroccan, Haitian), yet only one version of French is exits on Wikipedia, and more recently, Simple French.

Wikipedia serves as an encyclopedia and is not intended for testing AI-related experiments or exploring linguistic dialects. Additionally, you mentioned that you are the main contributor to this version. You can continue exploring other aspects of Algerian Arabic on different platforms.

Wikipedia should primarily focus on content with encyclopedic value. The current arq version does not align with that objective. I would prefer to have a discussion based on real linguistic approaches here. Therefore, we can wait for your friends to join and mention me, and I'll be available to reply.

Regards Riad Salih (talk) 17:49, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

You agree with me, but you do not want to accept what I have been telling you from the start.

This project, and especially the Wiktionary, is not about creating a new form of language. Dialects exist in every town and village. You may have already heard of the dialect of Bettioua, a village in Arzew. It is a mixture of Arabic and Sanhadji Berber.

Standard Algerian exists and can be recognized on many occasions, as I mentioned above.

Algerians mix their dialects when communicating daily. This phenomenon can be observed through recorded videos.

I respect your decision to decline participation in this project. However, I believe there may have been a misunderstanding regarding testing and experimentation. The incubator's purpose is to create and publish.

It is worth noting that Algerian is taught and studied globally and is integrated into various computer systems. Yesterday, I generated some texts with Gemini, but they were not up to par. However, they were still in Algerian.

I am sharing my opinion, which is similar to that of many others, even if they are not present here.

I will support and assist those who are willing to work on this project. It takes a lot of energy to achieve an acceptable result.

The group received a solicitation to publish the wiki in summer 2017, but everyone refused because it was not good. Hopefully, it will improve in the future with new contributions from newcomers.

For the 2024-2025 annual plan, the Group will prioritize Witionaire due to the availability of material (a donation of 25,000 words with translation from linguist Said Tadjer) . Additionally, we plan to utilize wikidata. If we clean up the mediocre articles in the incubator section of Wikipedia, we will focus even more on it. Dezedien (talk) 08:17, 22 February 2024 (UTC)

I invited Gemini to the discussion and his response was quite interesting, it's good to have a neutral opinion coming from a synthesized intelligence :)

Q: Algerian is language or Dialect ?

The question of whether Algerian is a language or a dialect is complex and controversial. There is no simple and definitive answer, as it depends on the perspective adopted and the criteria used to define a language.

Arguments in favor of Algerian as a language:

Algerian has its own grammar, vocabulary, and syntax. It is distinct from Literary Arabic, the official language of Algeria, and is not mutually intelligible with it.

Algerian has a long history and a rich literary tradition. There are many works written in Algerian, from poetry (الشعر) to novels (الرواية).

Algerian is the mother tongue of the majority of the Algerian population. It is used in daily life, in the media, and in education.

Arguments in favor of Algerian as a dialect:

Algerian is not recognized as an official language by the Algerian state. The only official language is Literary Arabic.

Algerian has no official status in education. It is not taught in schools and is not used in administrations.

Algerian is often seen as an inferior version of Literary Arabic. It is sometimes perceived as a "vulgar" or "incorrect" dialect.

In conclusion, there is no easy answer to the question of whether Algerian is a language or a dialect. The answer depends on the perspective adopted and the criteria used to define a language.

Here are some additional points to consider:

The distinction between language and dialect is often blurred and subject to debate.

The linguistic status of Algerian is evolving. More and more people are recognizing Algerian as a language in its own right.

The language question is often linked to questions of identity and politics.

It is important to respect the different opinions on this issue and not to impose a single vision.

Q : Do you think that creating a Wikipedia and a dictionary especially in Algerian would be useful?

Yes, I believe creating a Wikipedia and a Wiktionary in Algerian would be very useful.

There are many arguments in favor of this project:

1. Increased access to information:

An Algerian Wikipedia and Wiktionary would allow more people in Algeria to access information in their native language.

This is especially important for people who do not speak Literary Arabic or French fluently.

An Algerian Wikipedia and Wiktionary would help bridge the digital divide and promote digital inclusion.

2. Preserving Algerian culture and heritage:

An Algerian Wikipedia and Wiktionary would help document and preserve Algerian culture and heritage in the country's native language.

This would contribute to the transmission of knowledge and traditions to future generations.

An Algerian Wikipedia and Wiktionary would be a valuable resource for researchers and students interested in Algeria.

3. Strengthening Algerian identity:

An Algerian Wikipedia and Wiktionary would contribute to strengthening Algerian identity and promoting linguistic diversity.

This would allow Algerians to feel more proud of their language and culture.

An Algerian Wikipedia and Wiktionary would be a symbol of the richness and vitality of Algerian culture.

4. Development of the Algerian language:

An Algerian Wikipedia and Wiktionary would contribute to developing and standardizing the Algerian language.

This would create a corpus of texts in Algerian and encourage linguistic research.

An Algerian Wikipedia and Wiktionary would encourage the creation of new content in the language.

5. Contribution to the Wikimedia community:

Creating an Algerian Wikipedia and Wiktionary would enrich the Wikimedia community and contribute to the diversity of available content.

This would allow sharing knowledge and information with the rest of the world.

An Algerian Wikipedia and Wiktionary would be a valuable resource for people interested in the Algerian language and culture.

In addition to these benefits, it is important to note that creating an Algerian Wikipedia and Wiktionary is a feasible project.

There are already a number of resources available, such as dictionaries and corpora of texts in Algerian.

There is also an active community of Algerian speakers who could contribute to these projects.

In conclusion, I believe that creating an Algerian Wikipedia and Wiktionary is an important and beneficial project that deserves to be supported.

This is an initiative that could have a significant positive impact on Algerian society and on the Wikimedia community as a whole.

Q : Thank you Gemini where did you get these answers from?

I'm happy to hear my responses were helpful!

I generated those answers by using my knowledge and understanding of the world, which I gained through machine learning on a massive dataset of text and code. This dataset includes information in English, French, and many other languages, as well as computer code. I can process and understand this information and use it to generate relevant and informative answers to your questions.

In addition to my general knowledge, I also have access to specific resources related to Algeria, such as:

Dictionaries and text corpora in Algerian

Algerian news articles and websites

Studies and research on the Algerian language and culture

These resources helped me familiarize myself with the language and culture of Algeria and generate more accurate and relevant answers to your questions.

I'm constantly learning and improving, and I'm always looking for new information and resources to enrich my knowledge. If you have any suggestions or feedback, please don't hesitate to share them. I'm always happy to help! Dezedien (talk) 08:52, 22 February 2024 (UTC)

I am so glad 188.242.249.168 00:24, 5 May 2024 (UTC)

ISO has given Algerian Arabic the tag arq, so it's a language. Linguists in particular don't buy that "Dialects cannot be regarded as complete languages due to the absence of established grammatical rules"; they would argue that all languages have grammatical rules, and what are called "established grammatical rules" in standardized languages are often farces not even upheld in the writings of those who create and disseminate them, much less the language as it is actually spoken. There's no reason to delete this project.--Prosfilaes (talk) 02:00, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

@Prosfilaes Yes, ISO has also given Montenegrin, Ancient Greek, Klingon, ... etc language tags as cnr, grc, tlh ..., so they are all languages, and we should support them instead of reject them, right? Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 08:44, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

Ancient languages and artistic conlangs have been rejected for reasons unrelated to the case here. I don't have an opinion about Montenegrin, but the issues with it have been well detailed; because Serbia, Croatia, and Bosnia have their own names for Serbo-Croatian, Montenegro wanted their own national language/name despite lacking any significant differences. There doesn't seem to be anything similar in this case, just the standard dialect/language arguments.--Prosfilaes (talk) 05:17, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

thanks for your comments, In light of the available information, I believe that Algerian Arabic deserves to be recognized as a language. Its ISO language code, unique linguistic features, and historical context provide strong evidence for this categorization. By acknowledging its status as a distinct language, we can contribute to its preservation and the recognition of linguistic diversity. Dezedien (talk) 10:19, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

Against deleting this project. I don't think the project is unsuccessful. Wikipedia can be written in several dialects, there are several such examples, for example, als. In case of deletion, I suggest moving the content to Miraheze. --Danvintius Bookix (talk) 09:58, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

The Algerian community isn't very active in Arabic, their main language, Berber, or in French or English, their secondary languages. Articles in the Incubuator are often just copy and paste from other versions with minor changes and each region has its own dialect, meaning we'd need around 10 to 15 versions to cover all the different dialects. Riad Salih (talk) 12:08, 2 January 2025 (UTC)

Wikipedias in several dialects solve these problems differently. In some, there is one article that can be written in different dialects, in others, one article must be in only one dialect. In any case, this is not a reason to delete. Another thing is if it is actually the wrong language. --Danvintius Bookix (talk) 17:13, 9 January 2025 (UTC)

@Danvintius Bookix By such logical, Chinese Wikipedia shall be splitted into 6 Wikipedias per each national "standard dialect"? There's in actually another way to also solve these problems - the LanguageConverter. Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 23:44, 9 January 2025 (UTC)

Don't talk nonsense. Chinese Wikipedia has nothing to do with it. What converter do you suggest for Algerian Wikipedia - from Arabic to Arabic? --Danvintius Bookix (talk) 10:09, 10 January 2025 (UTC)

LanguageConverter won’t be of much help, as the dialect is complicated. Algeria has 58 provinces and countless dialects. At best, there are only 3 or 4 active editors across Wikipedia in Arabic, English, and French combined. In such a context, it seems unlikely that this version can remain viable. Riad Salih (talk) 02:03, 11 January 2025 (UTC)

Keep as there are sucessful projects in other dialects of arabic, f.i. arz: and ary:, which proves the possibility of a sucessfulproject in such a dialect. 5.183.29.95 11:33, 15 January 2025 (UTC)

Random Russian IP out of nowhere Riad Salih (talk) 20:18, 21 January 2025 (UTC)

Regarding the projects mentioned, it is important to show us why you believe they have been successful. Those acquainted with these projects are cognizant of their lack of success. Numerous articles are haphazardly composed, with minimal active editors who intermittently strive to sustain the project. Almost all articles lack reliability and credibility. Riad Salih (talk) 20:27, 21 January 2025 (UTC)

Indeed, if there are blatant bad quality of articles, and too hard to fix by directly editing, then nuking with re-creating would also be a good thing, several 3rd party users like Prosfilaes and Danvintius Bookix above just wanna split Arabic, they don't consider the quality of articles. Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 23:59, 21 January 2025 (UTC)

@Riad Salih: I consider them suvessful as they still weren't closed, despite one of them was nominated for such fate. Theyare also active. My country of origin should not concern you btw. 5.183.29.95 10:53, 22 January 2025 (UTC)

I believe you should use your official account instead of relying on an IP address, especially if you truly believe in the project. However, you haven't provided any tangible arguments to support your stance. Just because a version was accepted due to the influence of several contributors doesn't guarantee its success. For instance, the Moroccan version you mentioned is not part of the Wikimedia MA User Group that is more active in the Arabic and English version rather than the Moroccan one. Additionally, the Egyptian version primarily features short articles (editors there can counted on one hand), many of which are simply copied from Arabic sources with minor changes to make them appear original. Riad Salih (talk) 13:37, 22 January 2025 (UTC)

Hello @Riad Salih. I'm a member of Wikimedia MA User Group, and also an administrator on arywiki, and what you wrote in your last comment is definitely not correct. The link you sent with the table of projects has "Darija Wikipedia", so it's definitely one of the projects endorsed by our User Group. Three of the most active contributors to arywiki are also prominent members of the User Group (myself included), and one is even a founding member of the User Group. Many other editors on arywiki are also members of the User Group, though they may be more active in arywiki than other Wikis or Wikimedia activities, or the other way around. As a User Group, we also organized a number of edit-a-thons and contests in several languages, including Moroccan Darija. You can check the activities of the group for 2021, 2022, 2023, and 2024 for more information.

With the exception of a minority who are hostile to arywiki, the majority of the User Group members have no problem with it, and some even contribute to it when they can, just like most active editors on arywiki have no issues with other languages or projects (arwiki included), and contribute to them as well. You mentioned earlier that arywiki was "not a successful project" in your opinion. What are your criteria to judge a 5-year-old project as a "success"? Definitely you cannot compare it to Wikimedia projects that have existed for more than 20 years, and benefit from larger communities and institutional support. As far as we are concerned, as Wikimedia Morocco User Group, arywiki has so far been successful, and has attracted many new active editors, some of whom have gone to contribute even to other Wikimedia projects. There are certainly a lot of articles that need cleanup and improvement (just like in all Wikis), but there are also many good articles that are useful and informative (and I did not just come up with this, we have asked people from outside the community and been told about their experience reading the Wiki). We are not here to compete with the Arabic Wikipedia or any other project, and we don't need to have 1 million articles to be successful. Ideophagous (talk) 18:43, 26 January 2025 (UTC)

Hey back @Ideophagous Before I reply, could you please tell us how you happened to this deletion request? I see suddenly some contributors emerging out of nowhere in this talk. Riad Salih (talk) 20:16, 26 January 2025 (UTC)

Hi @Riad Salih. I found it by chance today when a new contributor on arywiki asked me a bunch of questions, including whether Wikipedia in other dialects existed, and I showed him the arq testwiki. The deletion request is linked on its main page. Ideophagous (talk) 20:45, 26 January 2025 (UTC)

Can you show me the wiki link of the discussion you are referring to? I would like to check it. Riad Salih (talk) 21:55, 26 January 2025 (UTC)

@Riad Salih It was on Google Meet. Ideophagous (talk) 22:20, 26 January 2025 (UTC)

All discussions pertaining to this request must take place exclusively within the incubator or on the Wikimedia platform for transparent traceability. All statements should be easily verifiable by anyone. Utilizing alternative platforms to forge secret alliances and solicit contributions from unrelated contributors not associated directly with the project is not acceptable. Riad Salih (talk) 22:26, 26 January 2025 (UTC)

@Riad Salih Now you're making baseless accusations. The meeting was exclusively about arywiki, and the new editor was just curious about other projects and how Wikimedia works in general, and they already wrote many articles on arywiki. There was no discussion of this request at all, and I alone decided to answer specifically the point regarding arywiki since you brought it up. I do not care if arq testwiki leave the Incubator or stays or gets deleted, since this is a matter that mainly concerns Wikimedians in Algeria or speakers of arq. Good job changing the subject from your baseless statements misrepresenting arywiki project to paranoid conspiracy theories. Have a good day/night. Ideophagous (talk) 23:02, 26 January 2025 (UTC)

Being straightforward isn't synonymous with paranoia. Let me be clear: I've noticed a sudden influx of contributors in the discussion, which is why I feel the need to ask for clarification. If you aren't involved or don't care, as you mentioned, there is no need to participate from the beginning. Also, please refrain from tagging me; the page is already in my watchlist. Regards Riad Salih (talk) 23:09, 26 January 2025 (UTC)

Sorry, I can't offer any explanations for your observations. I was answering baseless statements on your part regarding arywiki. The rest doesn't concern me. Ideophagous (talk) 23:40, 26 January 2025 (UTC)

To respond to your initial text:

I have never compared the success of any particular wiki with the arwiki. I have also mentioned the French, Arabic, and English wikis.

Success should be measured based on the real active contributors and the quality of articles. I still stand by my assertion that your group is more attentive and caring towards other version than the mawiki. You can verify this by checking the podcasts and the Facebook page of the group where I have not seen any Moroccan Darija language being used, nor is the name of the wiki group is Darija. The same goes for Wikimedia Commons, where I have rarely seen descriptions in Darija or efforts to do so.

It is not true that articles need as much cleanup as in other wikis. However, almost all articles require a significant amount of revision. People here might not understand the language, so I am making it clear so they won't just believe what you said. The core and the most important part of any wiki project is to have real encyclopedic articles, not a bunch of random drafts written in a specific dialect that only one region or village can understand.

I did not state that the group is not involved in the Moroccan wiki, but rather that it is less active, and there is no way to deny this fact.

Returning to the arqwiki, which only counts known editors trying to make it alive, it lacks a solid foundation to stand on. I have already expressed all that I needed to say. Riad Salih (talk) 23:27, 26 January 2025 (UTC)

Our group is interested in all Wikis that Moroccans are likely to read the most, that is arwiki, frwiki, enwiki, arywiki, zghwiki and shiwiki. The podcasts are mixed, and some of them are in Darija (the first 2 episodes for example), though I don't see what this has to do with arywiki, since the podcasts are generally aimed at a wider audience, just like the Facebook page, not just Moroccans. Here's a file with a description in Darija, though again, this is not our main focus at this point, nor is this directly related to arywiki. You keep bringing up a bunch of random pseudo-facts that are not even related to the main point. It's up to the community of arywiki and its readers to decide if the project is successful and has benefit, since they are the ones involved in it actively or passively. I've written and edited articles on several Wikipedias, and the only one where I see true high quality of content is enwiki, and even it has many aricles with missing sources, bad style, non-NPOV, etc. It takes time and effort (and a large community) to build a high quality encyclopedia, and that's what we're trying to do, and we're just getting started. Ideophagous (talk) 00:04, 27 January 2025 (UTC)

Not done. Language has a valid ISO 639-3 code. No valid reason for deletion has been given. Iohanen (Garcez) (talk) 04:42, 27 January 2025 (UTC)

This section was archived on a request by: Iohanen (Garcez) (talk) 04:42, 27 January 2025 (UTC)

Wp/sxu

As per the rejected RFL, there are no evidences why Upper Saxon is distinct from standard German, as such, this project is weird, the Upper Saxon contents can just be provided, and speakers of that can just contribute, the dewiki, maybe these contents should merge to dewiki first? --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 01:42, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

Strong Oppose. A rejected RFL is not a permanent ruling and could potentially be approved if a second RFL is proposed in the future with strong backing from the local Upper Saxon community. This language does not look 'weird'. It has its own ISO 693-3 Code and there are 2,000,000 native speakers (comparable to Hunsrik Wikipedia which has 3 million native speakers). Upper Saxon has a significant presence in Saxony and holds cultural importance to the inhabitants there and authors have written & published books in this language. Germany is a signatory to the European Charter for Regional or Minority Languages and Part II of that Charter mentions "The prohibition of all forms of unjustified distinction, exclusion, restriction or preference relating to the use of a regional or minority language and intended to discourage or endanger its maintenance or development." --DaveZ123 (talk) 08:28, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

[7] suggests that It is indeed only a regional spoken variety, and completely mutually intelligible with standard German, the only sightly difference looks like regional pronunciation, to which there should probably create a script converter, see also mw:LanguageConverter, verily say, German should probably be the first European Union official language with LanguageConverter support in production wikis like dewiki (that section listed English has "Pig Latin" but only for testing). But indeed, if you really have evidences why the rejection rationale is wrong (e.g. you have them to refute mutually intelligiblity with dewiki), you can submit a second request as appeal, so that everything would be re-analysed. Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 10:36, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

Deleted; the content is useless and the project won't ever be approved. --MF-W {a, b} 14:42, 27 January 2025 (UTC)

This section is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, replace this template with your comment. MF-W {a, b} 14:42, 27 January 2025 (UTC)

Wp/dar

Dear, in the Dargin version of the incubator, I found a large number of articles not in the literary dialect, I put templates where the language is incorrect so that the articles are deleted, please delete these articles as soon as you can, those who have administrator rights Saad Dargan (talk) 11:35, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Maybe, it written in other dialect? All dargin languages have one ISO code. --Danvintius Bookix (talk) 11:57, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

I speak two dialects, all articles are written mainly in two dialects, those in which I speak, half of the text is everywhere in Russian with a huge number of errors in Dargin, articles without errors and correctly written in one of the dialects I leave Saad Dargan (talk) 11:59, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

So, if I understand correctly, the articles are written in bad Dargin mixed with Russian (presumedly, created by non-native speakers). How feasible is it to correct the language? If that's possible, that should be the first way to go. --OWTB (talk) 09:23, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

yes, you got it right. I correct what can be corrected, but my plans are to clear the incubator of articles that do not correspond to the Dargin language and start writing correct articles myself. besides, in addition to the language in the article, the title is incorrectly indicated for 60% of the articles 2A02:8108:286:D000:985:AB9D:2ED6:4815 09:36, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

@Saad Dargan, вы хотите удалить все нынешние страницы в Инкубаторе на даргинском языке, или только те, которые вы пометили? Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 05:03, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

только те, что я пометил, так как там имеются добротные статьи. Saad Dargan (talk) 09:25, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

Хорошо. Такие вещи не надо просить на этой странице. Эта страница для запроса удаления всех страниц на определённом языке.

А те, что вы пометили настолько плохие, что их нельзя просто исправить? Обязательно удалить? Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 12:10, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

понял, да, они неполные а те что написаны 10 лет назад написаны на извращенном языке который не имеет ничего общего ни с одним диалектом. буду писать заново добротные статьи 2A00:20:7010:7B15:69C8:D46C:C1F9:9748 12:47, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

Not done. This isn't a request to delete the entire wiki. — Garcez (talk) 00:33, 18 February 2025 (UTC)

This section was archived on a request by: — Garcez (talk) 00:33, 18 February 2025 (UTC)