User talk:Absudar

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ϩⲁⲛⲣⲉⲛⲑⲟ

Hello. For the added country names, I want to mention them in a section about the Etymology of the countries. However, I am reluctant to use them as the lemma of the page, because it seems that both names are "hypercorrect" or just questionable, respectively. For instance, ϩⲩⲧⲁⲗⲓⲁ is because of the frequent change of ⲩ and ⲓ in Greek words, and the ϩ is also ambiguous. In Bohairic, it is usually omitted, i.e. ⲓⲥⲧⲟⲣⲓⲁ instead of Sahidic ϩⲓⲥⲧⲟⲣⲓⲁ, when it is at the beginning of a word and he first syllable is not stressed. See also ⲣⲱⲙⲏ instead of ϩⲣⲱⲙⲏ. I personally don't like this feature of Bohairic, but I can't change it.

As far as ⲧⲟⲥⲡⲁⲛⲓⲁ is concerned, it is even weirder. It is probably just from [ⲡⲓ]ⲑⲟ ⲓⲥⲡⲁⲛⲓⲁ '[the] land Spain' (again, btw, ϩⲓⲥⲡⲁⲛⲓⲁ would be non-Bohairic). Any other explanations would require that the author knew even less about Coptic then I already suspect. ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ (talk) 13:42, 12 December 2017 (UTC)

Hello! Yeah, you're right, i was confused about both ϩ and ⲩ in Italy's name and this weird transition with ⲧⲟⲥⲡⲁⲛⲓⲁ as well. Should've discussed on a talk page first, my fault.

Also, thank you for the information on Bohairic dialect, which as you could see, i lack (hope you're not getting mad correcting my edits in Sahidic-Bohairic-Subrussian Coptic!).

As for the edit itself, my point was that a 14th century book from maybe one of the last native Coptic speakers could provide a true, authentic names for towns/countries even though they may be corrupted. But i guess the whole mess with dialects in his book is because Coptic was far less standardized language than it is today.

--Bloomaround (talk) 14:23, 12 December 2017 (UTC)

No problem, I really appreciate your contributions. After a long time, it seems we finally have a continuous amount of contributors to the Coptic wikipedia. Thank you ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ (talk) 16:32, 12 December 2017 (UTC)

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ϩⲁⲛⲣⲉⲛϯⲙⲓ `ⲙⲙⲉⲧⲣⲉⲙⲛⲭⲏⲙⲓ

Maybe it's interesting for you. This article of Gundacker contains some precise reconstructions of Egyptian toponyms (from (very) Old Egyptian to Coptic), which makes it even possible to deduce some Coptic forms. The article is full with valuable information. We should use the reconstructions if we ever need Coptic names for the places which are mentioned in the article. ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ (talk) 14:33, 29 August 2019 (UTC)

https://www.academia.edu/36799671/Gundacker_R._2017_Where_to_Place_%C3%84ltere_Komposita._Traces_of_Dialectal_Diversity_Among_Early_Toponyms_and_Theonyms_in_D._Werning_ed._Proceedings_of_the_Fifth_International_Conference_on_Egyptian-Coptic-Linguistics_Crossroads_V_Berlin_February_17_20_2016_LingAeg_25_101-176 ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ (talk) 14:33, 29 August 2019 (UTC)

Very interesting, thank you a lotǃ It can also lead to some interesting conclusions about modern Egyptian toponymy. ⲥⲉⲣⲕⲓ (talk) 12:57, 1 September 2019 (UTC)

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Hello

Hey ! I am currently learning Coptic and also looking for vocabulary list for a conlang (Bohairic Coptic based with significant Middle Egyptian vocabulary especially in formal context) project I am doing. Can you please help me in it ? CaptainMeowmori (talk) 09:43, 1 January 2020 (UTC)

Please stop the vandalism

Could you please stop changing words only because you don't like them. What about this here Wp/cop/ⲫⲏⲉⲑⲟⲩⲁⲃ ⲑⲱⲙⲁⲥ ⲛⲉⲙ ⲡⲓϣⲏⲣⲓⲛⲟⲩⲣⲟ ? ϣⲏⲣⲓⲛⲟⲩⲣⲟ is not attested at all, like ⲥⲓⲉⲛⲥ, but the latter was at least clearly existent in Demotic still. I don't want to start an editwar, so I won't change it back, but we should have a discussion about how unwilling you are to accept other opinions, even if they may be a majority. If you start an article, then use your wording. But don't change others only because you like Greek or any other specific word so much ⲁⲛⲉⲯⲓⲟⲩⲥⲓⲣⲓ (talk) 12:54, 4 July 2020 (UTC)

ϣⲏⲣⲓⲛⲟⲩⲣⲟ is a construction that is based on a real attested Coptic word ϣⲉⲉⲣⲉⲛⲣⲣⲱ. That's how Copts would say "princess" and we can assume that they would say "prince" in a same way. ⲥⲓⲉⲛⲥ is again just an excessive reconstruction from a different time period. I'm not completely against reconstructions but only when they are necessary. If you hate Coptic and it's lexicon so much why do you call it Coptic then? Call it "Neo-Egyptian in Greek letters" or something like that. The language is not based on opinions or prejudices (about Greek words in your case) it's based on a huge textual basis and tradition. And btw this Wikipedia was basically dead for at least a year and i was the only contributor so i was the majority and there was no one to have a discussion with :). Have a good day ⲁⲛⲉⲯⲓⲟⲩⲥⲓⲣⲓǃ --ⲫⲁϯⲟⲩⲉⲣϣⲓ (talk) 13:28, 4 July 2020 (UTC)

"i was the only contributor" - I know, and thank you for all your work. ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ (talk) 15:35, 4 July 2020 (UTC)

If you look at the texts I write you see I use Greek words too. And yes, Coptic is basically "Neo-Egyptian in Greek letters". It is not "Greek with Egyptian syntax". Good for you but now it has changed so you need to live with the fact that other users may challenge your supposed truths about Coptic. I hope everything will be fine ⲁⲛⲉⲯⲓⲟⲩⲥⲓⲣⲓ (talk) 13:35, 4 July 2020 (UTC)

Coptic is not "Neo-Egyptian in Greek letters" it's much more complicated than that. You do use one Greek words but want to substitute the other ones with the nonexistent reconstructions for no reason. The Greek vocabulary is an essential part of the language and the attempts of "purifying" the living language are doomed to fail. Coptic is a dead language so of course you can do whatever you want with it thus creating your own pidgin that only you will understand and substituting the real Coptic with some fantasy language. Coptic will be dead forever with such revival attempts. --ⲫⲁϯⲟⲩⲉⲣϣⲓ (talk) 13:44, 4 July 2020 (UTC)

Dude, do you even know what is going on in Egypt? Nobody is systematically purifying the language and eradicating Greek. Just here and there it would be better to coin and revive Egyptian words then just taking over words from Greek. ⲁⲛⲉⲯⲓⲟⲩⲥⲓⲣⲓ (talk) 13:54, 4 July 2020 (UTC)

I guess you don't understand that some words were taken over 1000 years ago. Whats the criteria of "here and there"? --ⲫⲁϯⲟⲩⲉⲣϣⲓ (talk) 13:58, 4 July 2020 (UTC)

Everytime when it is easy to use a Coptic word, we should use it. For the same reason few Copts say ⲉⲣⲫⲟⲣⲓⲛ, but instead ⲓⲛⲓ 'to bring'. But we don't need to come up with a Coptic version of ⲁⲑⲏⲛⲁⲓ, that's what I mean ⲁⲛⲉⲯⲓⲟⲩⲥⲓⲣⲓ (talk) 14:37, 4 July 2020 (UTC)

Again, you're exchanging perfectly fine words with Greek words. You boasted with having been the only contributor here for a long time. But are you doing anything else than changing individual words ? Why are you doing that? I would also express things others have written here differently, but do I change it? No. ⲁⲛⲉⲯⲓⲟⲩⲥⲓⲣⲓ (talk) 16:41, 7 July 2020 (UTC)

I was changing my own text lol. Check the revision history before writing next time. --ⲫⲁϯⲟⲩⲉⲣϣⲓ (talk) 20:29, 7 July 2020 (UTC)

I checked the revision history, and you are far from the only contributor. Besides, what is "your own text"? I have the feeling your are almost pissed that there are several contributors here now and you need to share "your" Wikipedia. If you want "your own text", than write a blog, but not in Wikipedia ⲁⲛⲉⲯⲓⲟⲩⲥⲓⲣⲓ (talk) 21:23, 7 July 2020 (UTC)

Hahah are you serious? Your whole point was that you should ONLY correct your OWN text and not other peoples articles. I've expanded that article, realised it was far from good and corrected myself on it. I don't know why you are so mad about it hahah. --ⲫⲁϯⲟⲩⲉⲣϣⲓ (talk) 21:34, 7 July 2020 (UTC)

Also I checked wiki activity, you were not even the only contributor for "at least a year". You were the only one for a few months, I give you that, but not more. And even if you were, what rights do you think does it give you? That you're the supreme master of Coptic and it allows you to change Egyptian into Greek? ⲁⲛⲉⲯⲓⲟⲩⲥⲓⲣⲓ (talk) 17:04, 7 July 2020 (UTC)

I don't know which activity you where checkihg, next time check the wiki's statistics before writing anything. --ⲫⲁϯⲟⲩⲉⲣϣⲓ (talk) 20:29, 7 July 2020 (UTC)

I checked exactly this and I don't see more than some months. Don't take yourself more important than you are. 21:23, 7 July 2020 (UTC)

Yes, 14 months is exactly some months. I only brought up that i was the only contributor because you wrote that i should've discussed the changes i made with someone. I said there was no one to discuss with because i was the only contributor. And now you're saying it as if i said "i'm better than you because i was contributing for a year". Funny :) --ⲫⲁϯⲟⲩⲉⲣϣⲓ (talk) 21:34, 7 July 2020 (UTC)

Seems like you have a hard time reading statistics. ⲁⲛⲉⲯⲓⲟⲩⲥⲓⲣⲓ (talk) 22:07, 7 July 2020 (UTC)

Ϧ

Why did you undo my revision in Wp/cop/ⲧⲭⲉϩⲗⲓ (ⲑⲱϣ). Is Ϧ not the uppercase letter to ϧ? ⲁⲛⲉⲯⲓⲟⲩⲥⲓⲣⲓ (talk) 23:50, 5 August 2020 (UTC)

I'm sorry i didn't want to do that. I was editing another page and did it by mistake. You're right Ϧ is capitalised ϧ. --ⲫⲁϯⲟⲩⲉⲣϣⲓ (talk) 00:02, 6 August 2020 (UTC)

Oh OK I see, that explains it. I was confused. ⲁⲛⲉⲯⲓⲟⲩⲥⲓⲣⲓ (talk) 00:13, 6 August 2020 (UTC)

ⲛ̀ⲣⲉⲙⲛϥⲣⲁⲛⲥⲁ

I hope you know that nobody is using your words ⲫⲣⲁⲛⲅⲓⲁ, ⲫⲣⲁⲛⲅⲁⲥ and so on. I would not say anything if you just create an article where you use these words. I would think, OK whatever. But can you please not start editing out ϥⲣⲁⲛⲥⲁ with your favorite word. How would you think if somebody writes something, and you don't like one word, and replace it with another. This is different from editing spelling errors or grammatical mistakes. ⲁⲛⲉⲯⲓⲟⲩⲥⲓⲣⲓ (talk) 21:17, 21 August 2020 (UTC)

I was editing the articles I've wrote, have a good day :) --ⲫⲁϯⲟⲩⲉⲣϣⲓ (talk) 22:35, 21 August 2020 (UTC)

Sure, that doesn't give you the right to change words which are accepted to your personal creations. WHAT THE FUCK ⲁⲛⲉⲯⲓⲟⲩⲥⲓⲣⲓ (talk) 01:09, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

Says the guy who advocates "ⲑⲟ" for "country" lol. You saying something is "accepted" doesn't mean anything, there are historical attestations in texts and that's the only thing I rely on. --ⲫⲁϯⲟⲩⲉⲣϣⲓ (talk) 08:45, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

Please stop the vandalism II

I thought everybody more or less agreed that we don't exchange words one person uses by some other word only because it is liked more. In Wp/cop/ⲫⲁⲓⲁⲧ (ϣⲗⲟⲗ), the used word was ⲑⲉⲙⲫⲁⲓⲁⲧ, you changed it to ⲗⲩⲃⲏ - this is unacceptable. You can use ⲗⲩⲃⲏ in a new paragraph, but don't simply exchange words only because you like them better. ⲁⲛⲉⲯⲓⲟⲩⲥⲓⲣⲓ (talk) 01:07, 20 September 2020 (UTC)

Everyone has agreed to use an attested ⲗⲩⲃⲏ instead of a made up ⲑⲉⲙⲫⲁⲓⲁⲧ why are you violating the consensus? Lol and again, ⲑⲉⲙⲫⲁⲓⲁⲧ is the word I've used in this article when I've created it so I've just corrected my own mistake. --ⲫⲁϯⲟⲩⲉⲣϣⲓ (talk) 20:52, 20 September 2020 (UTC)

OK, but this is also a weird argument. With the same argument, anybody could change every ⲭⲱⲣⲁ in the introduction of the ⲭⲏⲙⲓ article back to ⲑⲟ. ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ (talk) 16:18, 23 September 2020 (UTC)

Because it's not an argument but ⲁⲛⲉⲯⲓⲟⲩⲥⲓⲣⲓ uses it anyway ("changing other peoples words"). Wikipedia is a free encyclopaedia, there's no copyright here. --ⲫⲁϯⲟⲩⲉⲣϣⲓ (talk) 16:57, 23 September 2020 (UTC)

We sent you an e-mail

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Hello

Hello ,

I really loved the work u guys are doing on the Wiki Cop , Im a Tachelhit Wiki contubuter ( an Amazigh language ), i think we guys should help each other, thats why i wrote in the Coptic request that i supported the project . I invit u guys to do the same for the Tachelhit Wikipedia here : https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_Tachelhit

And could you please write a stub about the Tachelhit language in wiki cop – just a few sentences based on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shilha_language ? Im gonna do the same thing for the Coptic language in our Wiki.

Thanks --Ayour2002 22:33, 01 November 2020 (UTC)

ⲕⲏⲃ

Hi, I saw you added ⲕⲏⲃ. I was so long not sure what the name would be in Coptic. How did you find out it is ⲕⲏⲃ and not ϫⲏⲃ in Bohairic? ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ (talk) 15:52, 19 December 2020 (UTC)

Hello ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ. I've just used an Ancient Greek name as a safe option. If ⲕ is a Greek representation of a palatalised /g/ then the outcome would likely be ϫⲏⲃ in Bohairic and ϭⲏⲃ is Sahidic indeed. But there's also an Ancient Greek form ⲥⲓⲃⲟⲩ so I can't tell for sure what the Coptic outcome could be. I know ϫ sometimes becomes ⲥ in Greek and other languages like in ϫⲉⲙⲛⲟⲩϯ-Σεβέννυτος or ϫⲁⲛⲏ-صان or Tsoan in Hebrew or ϯⲗⲟϫ-دلاص. According to Peust in this case ϫ could be pronounced as something between /č/ and /ts/ in Lower Egypt. But it looks like etymologically this ϫ stems from ṯ not g. --ⲫⲁϯⲟⲩⲉⲣϣⲓ (talk) 13:03, 20 December 2020 (UTC)

Ah I see! And I thought we would finally have solved this mystery, it is really a difficult name for me. Yeah, the palatalized g in Bohairic would not necessarily show up in Greek, in any case not in this divine name, because the Greeks would have taken it maybe from other dialects, or more likely, from a time when it was not ϫ in Bohairic yet. But I don't know. Well, the Latin wikipedia has a nice, short overview in case you're interested (with an example name in the text): https://la.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lingua_Aegyptia_Demotica#Mutae_palatales ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ (talk) 17:52, 20 December 2020 (UTC)

An offer

ⲛⲟϥⲣⲓ ϣⲫⲏⲣ! I am the administrator of the Ancient Greek Wikipedia (wp/grc/Κυρία Δέλτος) and I'd be interested in making an .svg logo for the Coptic Wikipedia (if there isn't one already existant). I just need you to translate the words "Wikipedia" and "The free encyclopedia" into Coptic. Thanks in advance. --PastelKos (talk) 14:52, 16 February 2021 (UTC)
(edit: @Ⲫⲁϯⲟⲩⲉⲣϣⲓ: Just did that to get your attention beacause maybe you don't see it without a notification --PastelKos (talk) 14:51, 19 February 2021 (UTC))

ⲭⲁⲓⲣⲉ ⲡⲁϣⲫⲏⲣ. Thank you for your offer. Unfortunately, Coptic doesn't have an established term for "encyclopedia". There are some suggestions but none of them are widely accepted. --ⲫⲁϯⲟⲩⲉⲣϣⲓ (talk) 20:49, 20 February 2021 (UTC)

@Ⲫⲁϯⲟⲩⲉⲣϣⲓ: I don't know coptic, but I've seen that coptic has a lot of borrowings from ancient greek. Maybe something like ⲉⲅⲕⲩⲕⲗⲟⲡⲁⲓⲇⲉⲓⲁ could work? Anyways, I could make many versions and you could then choose. Whatever works for you! --PastelKos (talk) 14:24, 20 March 2021 (UTC)

User:PastelKos, a "late" proposal on converting the word into Coptic:

• (Ancient Greek) ἐγκύκλιος παιδείᾱ
  • ἐγκυκλοπαιδεία
    • (Modern Greek) εγκυκλοπαίδεια
    • (Classical Latin) encyclopaedia
      • ⲉⲛⲕⲩⲕⲗⲟⲡⲁⲓⲇⲉⲓⲁ (closest to the original Ancient Greek)
        • Ⲉⲛⲕⲩⲕⲗⲟⲡⲁⲓⲇⲉⲓⲁ (capitalized)
        • /æn.kɪk.lo.pɑj.ˈde.jɑ/ (how to pronounce in IPA)
      • ⲉⲛⲕⲩⲕⲗⲟⲡⲓⲇⲓⲁ (a possible conversion into Coptic phonology)
        • Ⲉⲛⲕⲩⲕⲗⲟⲡⲓⲇⲓⲁ (capitalized)
        • /æn.kɪk.loˈpɪd.jɑ/ (how to pronounce in IPA)

--Mahmudmasri (talk) 17:52, 13 January 2022 (UTC)

@Mahmudmasri: Better late than never! Write for me the phrase "Wikipedia the free encyclopedia" in both versions and I'll do both. Then it's up to you which version you'll keep

PastelKos (talk) 18:16, 13 January 2022 (UTC)

@PastelKos: Unfortunately, it is hard for me to decide, as I do not speak Coptic. I just read from many sources how (Late Bohairic) Coptic was supposed to be pronounced.

--Mahmudmasri (talk) 18:46, 13 January 2022 (UTC)

@Mahmudmasri: Ok then don't worry! I'll look at how other ancient greek words were transported into coptic and I'll tell you more. However, can you at least translate "Wikipedia the free encyclopedia"?

-- PastelKos (talk) 18:53, 13 January 2022 (UTC)

Let me try to render Wikipedia

• Ⲟⲩⲓⲕⲓⲡⲓⲇⲓⲁ (OYIKIPIDIA) /wɪkɪˈpɪdjɑ/

The word for "encyclopedia" needs to have a gender, either masculine or feminine, to decide its definite article.

• If masculine:
  • ⲡⲓⲉⲛⲕⲩⲕⲗⲟⲡⲁⲓⲇⲉⲓⲁ /pen.kɪk.loˈpɑj.de.jɑ/ - ⲡⲓⲉⲅⲕⲩⲕⲗⲟⲡⲁⲓⲇⲉⲓⲁ (pronounced the same?) or
  • ⲡⲓⲉⲛⲕⲩⲕⲗⲟⲡⲓⲇⲓⲁ /pen.kɪk.loˈpɪd.jɑ/ - ⲡⲓⲉⲅⲕⲩⲕⲗⲟⲡⲓⲇⲓⲁ (pronounced the same?)
• If feminine:
  • ϯⲉⲛⲕⲩⲕⲗⲟⲡⲁⲓⲇⲉⲓⲁ /den.kɪk.loˈpɑj.de.jɑ/ - ϯⲉⲅⲕⲩⲕⲗⲟⲡⲁⲓⲇⲉⲓⲁ (pronounced the same?) or
  • ϯⲉⲛⲕⲩⲕⲗⲟⲡⲓⲇⲓⲁ /den.kɪk.loˈpɪd.jɑ/ - ϯⲉⲅⲕⲩⲕⲗⲟⲡⲓⲇⲓⲁ (pronounced the same?)
• Now what does the word "from" mean?
• What does the word "free" mean? Does it also need to be masculinized or femininized?

Greets.

--Mahmudmasri (talk) 19:09, 13 January 2022 (UTC)

@Mahmudmasri: This what I've found:

• ΑΙ: ⲁⲣⲭⲁⲓⲟⲥ/ⲁⲣⲭⲉⲟⲥ (ἀρχαῖος), ⲇⲁⲓⲙⲱⲛ/ⲇⲉⲙⲱⲛ (δαίμων). For the first one, it states that ⲁⲣⲭⲁⲓⲟⲥ is Bohairic and ⲁⲣⲭⲉⲟⲥ is Sahidic. Since - I think - we write in Bohairic we keep the ⲁⲓ
• ΕΙ: ⲉⲓⲇⲱⲗⲟⲛ (εἴδωλον), ⲉⲓⲣⲏⲛⲏ/ⲓⲣⲏⲛⲏ/ϩⲓⲣⲏⲛⲏ (εἰρήνη), ⲛⲉⲓⲗⲟⲥ (Νεῖλος), ⲡⲁⲣⲁⲇⲉⲓⲥⲟⲥ/ⲡⲁⲣⲁⲇⲓⲥⲟⲥ (Παράδεισος). Since you've told me though that without the ⲉ, it would be pronounced /pɪd.jɑ/, I suggest we keep the first form i.e. Ⲉⲛⲕⲩⲕⲗⲟⲡⲁⲓⲇⲉⲓⲁ

-- PastelKos (talk) 19:15, 13 January 2022 (UTC)

By the way, I assume your initial version, ⲉⲅⲕⲩⲕⲗⲟⲡⲁⲓⲇⲉⲓⲁ (EGKYKLOPAIDEIA), would be pronounced /æ.kɪk.loˈpɑj.de.jɑ/ (or are there rules for Greco-Bohairic words /æn.kɪk.loˈpɑj.de.jɑ/?). Yes, here Bohairic is used, as I noticed, but I also noticed that the phonology is not agreed upon. A simple search on the internet, you'll see teaching material sources prescribe a loosely Greco-Bohairic pronunciation, labeling it Bohairic, or prescribing something I wonder if that is Coptic at all.

--Mahmudmasri (talk) 19:21, 13 January 2022 (UTC)

Oh, take a look at the main page. (The) Wikipedia was already rendered ϯⲃⲓⲕⲓⲡⲁⲓⲇⲉⲓⲁ (DiBIKIPAIDEIA), which has to be pronounced /di.βɪ.kɪ.ˈpɑj.de.jɑ/. --Mahmudmasri (talk) 20:20, 13 January 2022 (UTC)