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Latest comment: 6 months ago by Liuxinyu970226 in topic Translate your English-only pages or not?

Thanks! (Sound Files)[edit source]

We are loving your entries especially the sound files you have attached!

Are you on our Noongarpedia Facebook page?

I didn't find the sound files, they were already attached but appeared on the page just as file names - so not obvious what to do with them. Here's how they should be inserted:
  • If the sound file is in Wikimedia Commons then use the code: [[File:Molawa.ogg|thumb|Audio]] which will produce the link on the right:

with any following text here ...

  • The following sound formats may be uploaded: 'ogg' or 'oga' – recommended; or 'mid'.
  • Note [[File:Molawa.ogg|Audio]] (i.e. no 'thumb') produces the link as:

which seems to be exactly the same?

  • If the sound file is not not in Wikimedia Commons then we need to link to the whole page for intellectual property reasons, e.g. [http://www.derbalnara.org.au/wangkiny-language-glossary (Yonga: Audio)]<ref>[http://www.derbalnara.org.au/wangkiny-language-glossary Nyungar Wardan Katitjin Bidi - Derbal Nara]. Pub People's Ocean Knowledge Trail of Cockburn Sound & Districts. Wangkiny / Language Glossary. Retrieved 1 August 2016</ref> which will produce the link as (Yonga: Audio)[1]

Cleaned up comments Aarghdvaark (talk) 07:35, 2 September 2016 (UTC)Reply

Ngiyan waarnk[edit source]

  1. Nyungar Wardan Katitjin Bidi - Derbal Nara. Pub People's Ocean Knowledge Trail of Cockburn Sound & Districts. Wangkiny / Language Glossary. Retrieved 1 August 2016

Templates[edit source]

Source?[edit source]

Done. You need to add Wp/nys/ at the beginning of the template, for instance: Template:Wp/nys/Cite. --Katxis (talk) 20:48, 25 July 2016 (UTC)Reply

Redirect[edit source]

Redirect example #REDIRECT [[Wp/nys/Birak]]

alt Noongar spelling template[edit source]

Ballardong kalla
Wudjari karla
  • {{Wp/nys/spelling |Amangu = |Ballardong = kalla |Bibbulmun = |Binjareb = |Juat = |Kaneang = |Koreng = |Minang = |Njaki Njaki = |Njunga = |Wardandi = |Whadjuk = |Wiilman = |Wirlomin = |Wudjari = karla }}

Which is rendered as on the right. See the source code for better spacing (the code tag used here ignores new lines). Also note it picks up the page title from where the page it is used, in case the page title is changed.

Quote template[edit source]

Kaya Aarghdvaark

I created {{Wp/nys/quote}} for quotes just a pick of the en.wp one the documentation is a little clunky cheers Gnangarra (talk) 04:25, 24 October 2017 (UTC)Reply

Thanks :) Usage:

  • {{Wp/nys/quote |text=This story begins ... }}

Wiki links[edit source]

To link to other pages in Wp/nys suggest you use [[Wp/nys/Wardan (Ocean)|Wardan (Ocean)]], which appears on the page as Wardan (Ocean).

To link to pages in the English wikipedia use [[W:page name in Wikipedia|page name wanted]], e.g. [[W:Luritja dialect|Luritja people]] which appears on the page as Luritja people.

Links can be made plural simply by adding an 's', e.g. [[wikipedia:Luritja dialect|Luritja people]]s which which appears on the page as Luritja peoples.

Hey there[edit source]

thanks so much for all the editing. Alot has been done by 8, 9, 10, 11 and 12 year old students we are working with and need a little editing. You are a true champion of the project!

No worries, I found the new additions but didn't want to edit them in case it discouraged the kids. But I have since edited some.
You are doing a great job yourself in getting people excited about Noongarpedia! Aarghdvaark (talk) 08:12, 4 December 2016 (UTC)Reply

Page titles[edit source]

The preferred format for page titles is Noongar word (English word). Note both initial letters of the words are capitalized. This has the advantage that a link to the page reads normally, e.g. 'a type of tree found in Noongar boodjarak is the Biboolboorn (Paperbark)'.

Deprecated alternatives are:

  • Noongar word - English word, because it doesn't read naturally in text when linked. Also, if there are multiple Noongar words then it becomes confusing with Noongar word1 - Noongar word2 - English word
  • Noongar word/English word, because '/' in a link could be read by the computer as part of a path name (eg. /home/user/docs/Letter.txt)

References and categories[edit source]

Suggest standard reference section is:

== Ngiyan waarnk - References ==




All pages should have the category 'Wp/nys', but 'Wp/nys/Djerap' is just for the birds!

N.B. The <references/> tag normally has no effect, since references go at the bottom of the page anyway. It is only a safety feature in case somebody puts something following the Ngiyan waarnk - References, e.g. External links or whatever. An alternative seems to be to use {{Wp/nys/Ngiyan waarnk}} or {{Wp/nys/reflist}} instead of <references/>.

Reference format[edit source]

Most people use variants on the Harvard Style of referencing, e.g. in text example - (Jennings 1997) or (Conley & Galeson 1998), but Wikipedia uses the IEEE referencing style, e.g. [2]. The Harvard referencing style in a reference section is e.g.:[1]

Conley, TG & Galeson, DW 1998, 'Nativity and wealth in mid-nineteenth century cities', Journal of Economic History, vol. 58, no. 2, pp. 468-493.

Note the title is not italics but the Journal is. The year comes after the authors and not in brackets, but there is a trend for this to change. Suggest NoongarPedia style for this as example in refs below.[2] The rules for commas, full stops, etc. are pretty arcane, and anyway the template used on the English Wikipedia just ignores these rules and uses full stops everywhere, so suggest we do the same. People have said they can't do referencing because of all the arcane formatting rules, so that's another good reason to just use full stops. Except after standard words such as 'vol', 'pp' and after authors' initials where it's best not to use full stops to make it easier and cleaner to read and faster to edit! Also use names as used by the author instead of last, first. last, first. etc. which removes redundant commas from the ref. Put the date in brackets as that fits with Harvard in-text style and don't use full stop before date unless there are multiple authors. And the full stop at the end of the ref can be omitted.

Wikipedia auto template example below and in ref section for how this should appear in the Noongarpedia:[3][4]

Alfven, H.O.G. (1990). "Cosmology in the plasma universe - an introductory exposition". IEEE Transactions on Plasma Science. 18: 5–10.

N.B. Standard wikipedia referencing is for the ref tag to come immediately after punctuation (usually a full stop).

  1. "Harvard citation style: Harvard examples". University of WA Library. Retrieved 16 May 2017
  2. Conley TG. Galeson DW. (1998). "Nativity and wealth in mid-nineteenth century cities". Journal of Economic History. Vol 58. No 2. pp 468-493
  3. Bernard Rooney (2011). "The Nyoongar Legacy". Batchelor Press. ISBN 978 174131 232 4
  4. Alfven HOG (1990). "Cosmology in the plasma universe - an introductory exposition". IEEE Transactions on Plasma Science. Vol 18. pp 5–10
  • see Category:Wp/nys/Perth suburb - add more Perth suburbs from Landgate and from Rooney "The Nyoongar Legacy". Revised Category:Wp/nys/Perth suburb up to Carramar

Request to be test administrator[edit source]

Hi, Aarghdvaark. Over on that page I'll mark your request as potentially eligible, and left open for the usual period of comment, which is five days.

Before I approve, though, I want to share a couple of things that I thought you would know as a fairly experienced Wikipedian. In particular:

  • Even when there are no test administrators available, Incubator administrators are still always available to help on things like deletions. I deleted the pages you mentioned in your RfTA, because they were clear QD candidates. But why didn't you ask? Just add the template {{delete}}; we'll find them.


Thanks for deleting them. Coincidentally I only found those when I was looking through the category 'Wp/nys pages' when writing my request, so I just added them to my request! Aarghdvaark (talk) 00:58, 5 January 2017 (UTC)Reply
  • On something like the "categories that don't work", I would be reluctant to delete a category like that without some community consensus, and perhaps an effort to make them work. Sometimes it's ok to have maintenance categories that are empty "now", as long as they are active "sometimes".
'Category:Wp/nys/Articles with unsourced statements' is a category page I created (you can find it in the category Wp/nys pages), but I didn't create the template, and although the template works my category page doesn't work :(
Wp/nys/Gungurru is an example page which has the "hidden" categories: All articles with unsourced statements; Articles with unsourced statements. Click on these categories and they show the same thing, Wp/nys pages tagged with 'source?'. (N.B. possibly one of these two could be removed as they seem to be duplicates?) They also say "Error: This page is unprefixed! You can create a page at Category:Wp/nys/Articles with unsourced statements." Which is what I did for 'Category:Wp/nys/Articles with unsourced statements'. I wanted to get these categories to show up in the main Wp/nys category as categories, so they would be easy to find. The page I created does that, but it is empty. Currently I have to remember a page with a 'source?' tag and then click on 'Articles with unsourced statements'
That is what I was trying to do, but since that failed I needed to delete my 'Category:Wp/nys/Articles with unsourced statements' page.Aarghdvaark (talk) 00:58, 5 January 2017 (UTC)Reply
I think you'll find your category page works now. (Template has to leave a prefixed category.) StevenJ81 (talk) 03:40, 5 January 2017 (UTC)Reply

So when things like these don't happen, it makes me a little nervous that you don't fully understand using the administator's toolbox. I doubt the 'crats are going to say "no" to you, but I'd like your assurance that you understand things like this—and that you'll ask us for a second opinion when you're not sure about something. StevenJ81 (talk) 14:58, 4 January 2017 (UTC)Reply

greetings[edit source]

Am working out of the https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/State_Library_of_Western_Australia - currently - interested in keeping up with things you are very kind and generous with your help here - thank you !!! JarrahTree (talk) 04:56, 13 June 2017 (UTC)Reply

@User:JarrahTree, thanks :) Glad to help. I'll pop into the state library. I mostly work on the Noongarpedia. Aarghdvaark (talk) 02:53, 21 June 2017 (UTC)Reply

Monday 7th Aug[edit source]

Hi Aarghdvaark, There is a noongar group meeting in the BiblioTech on the 7th August from 9:30 would you be able to join us we'll some new noongar trainers in Irma from Curtin Uni and Lindsay from Albany. Gnangarra (talk) 06:09, 10 July 2017 (UTC)Reply

Getting Noongar Wikipedia toward approval[edit source]

@IngridC-Curtin: Hi, both. I'm running through all the test projects (there are about 1,000). The Noongar Wikipedia project is definitely one of the stronger ones here, and one of my jobs as administrator is to see what I can do to help you get your project approved and standing on its own.

  • By the numbers, you look pretty good:
    • You have a good number of pages. (It's a little light for a final approval, but moving in the right direction.)
    • You have a community of contributors. (The formal requirement is that during each month, a test needs to have at least three different editors with at least ten edits each. That has to be proved over a minimum of three consecutive months, and then continued until approval. You had that many contributors during much of 2016, but not quite so many so far in 2017. So you may wish to get some people involved again.)
  • There are a couple of issues, though, which I want to bring to your attention:
    • You need to translate the interface into Noongar. Start with the MediaWiki most used messages, found here.
    • Much of your project is in English. I read the explanation of this on your main page, and it makes sense. However, I honestly don't know whether the Language Committee would approve a nominally non-English project that is written in English to a great extent. (That doesn't mean the project can't live at Incubator indefinitely, but most people are hoping to get their own independent project [i.e., nys.wikipedia.org]).
    • Based on random page calls, you have a fairly high percentage of stubs.

I don't know what you have in mind in terms of your timing and longer-running plans. I am not going to pester you about the test or anything. But I did want you to know where you stand, at least as I see it. Continued good luck, and thank you for your contributions. StevenJ81 (talk) 21:33, 26 July 2017 (UTC)Reply

@StevenJ81: Just saw this, I'm currently working through the 700 odd essential translations on translatewiki. I spoke with the language committee during the Berlin Conference in April 2017 they were ok with the use of english or more precisely South West Australian Gnangarra (talk) 04:21, 24 October 2017 (UTC)Reply

Expiration of test-admin rights[edit source]

Aarghdvraark, your test administrator rights will expire on 9 January. You can apply for a one-year renewal at I:RFTA. StevenJ81 (talk) 16:28, 21 December 2017 (UTC)Reply

some gnome work please[edit source]

Kaya I will be adding to to this over the day can you whip out your mop for them.... cheers Gnangarra (talk) 05:36, 27 December 2017 (UTC)Reply

Kaya @Gnangarra: Done :)

I think Wp/nys/Djinang was supposed to be the complement to Wp/nys/Kaya, but Wp/nys/Kaya is a language lesson? I couldn't find any stories about Wp/nys/Scarp Pool. Djinang moorditj! Aarghdvaark (talk) 00:20, 1 January 2018 (UTC)Reply

deleted edits[edit source]

can you look to see if there are deleted edits for User:KorinaMU moorditj Gnangarra (talk) 12:49, 10 June 2018 (UTC)Reply

@Gnangarra: Kaya, the only edits I can find are two for the page Wp/nys/Boodjarak - Country, but they've not been deleted. I've also looked at the list of contributions by KorinaMU and it only lists the two entries for Wp/nys/Boodjarak - Country - and indeed the current version is by KorinaMU. There's no sign of any deleted edits or deleted pages for the last month. What time period would these deleted edits be - possibly they might be from the old pre incubator wiki version? Moorditj, Aarghdvaark (talk) 02:55, 11 June 2018 (UTC)Reply

Kia[edit source]

Aarghdvaark many thanks for you imput and support for this katitjiny bidi Moodjar (talk) 04:18, 27 November 2018 (UTC)Reply

No worries. Thanks for your support too :) Aarghdvaark (talk) 23:05, 28 November 2018 (UTC)Reply

Youtube icon[edit source]

[[File:YouTube icon (2011-2013).svg|50px|title]] '''[https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=4&v=3_AhTvYcSYM Australian Space Agency Brand Animation]''' appears as below (don't forget the closing ''':

title Australian Space Agency Brand Animation

An edit issue[edit source]

Hello. I have recently made some edits to the page Wp/nys/Yarn - Stories. If you think my edits are controversial, please do revert my edit. If you think it needs modification, please do it. I have actually found that article in the Special page [Unclosed quote in heading]. Adithyak1997 (talk) 17:35, 25 April 2019 (UTC)Reply

@Adithyak1997: Hi Adithyak1997, no worries, thanks very much for helping and thanks for the tip :) Aarghdvaark (talk) 13:53, 26 April 2019 (UTC)Reply
Fixed :) Tracked down all errors in quotes. "Unclosed quote in heading page" showed this straight away when updated. Aarghdvaark (talk) 23:37, 1 May 2019 (UTC)Reply
Thanks a lot. Adithyak1997 (talk) 02:42, 2 May 2019 (UTC)Reply

Request a page is deleted[edit source]

{{delete| Miscellaneous}} results in "This page may meet the criteria for speedy deletion. The given reason is: Miscellaneous'. This flags the page so an administrator will then speedily delete it. Other possible reasons are: General, Articles, Images - see Meta:Deletion policy. Aarghdvaark (talk) 06:53, 22 June 2019 (UTC)Reply

Community Insights Survey[edit source]

RMaung (WMF) 14:34, 9 September 2019 (UTC)Reply

Test Wiki activity[edit source]

Go to the page Wp/nys: Nyungar Wikipedia This is an open test wiki of the Wikimedia Incubator ...

Click on 'test wiki activity' to see monthly stats

To see total number of pages

NYS[edit source]

Kaya Aarghdvaark, please dont create new solely english articles, its causing us problems with getting the language use up to required the amount. We are embarking on a language program very shortly to address the amount of Nyungar in use. boodar-wun. Gnangarra (talk) 02:10, 19 August 2020 (UTC)Reply

@Gnangarra: Kaya Gnangarra, I did try to find the Noongar word for constellation but failed and didn't want to make one up obviously. I was really hoping someone would know the Noongar for constellation and move the page. As it is, by deleting the page, those 'constellation' pages have been orphaned. BTW What is the required amount of Noongar and what is at present? And why aren't the people involved in the language program making regular edits - just 10 people, each making just one edit (not a new page) a month, would have a significant impact on the project stats? Because without regular editors this project is not going anywhere however much Noongar it has :( Boorda! Aarghdvaark (talk) 07:14, 19 August 2020 (UTC)Reply
@Gnangarra: Possibly 'Jindang Moort (Constellations)'? Aarghdvaark (talk) 12:32, 19 August 2020 (UTC)Reply

wp/nys deletion discussion[edit source]

See the discussion at Incubator:Requests for deletions/Requests#Wp/nys 18 September 2022 (https://incubator.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Incubator:Requests_for_deletions/Requests&oldid=5551215). I mentioned in the discussion I had stopped editing, the reason I stopped is the item 'NYS' above :( Aarghdvaark (talk)

odd text appearing at top of page, not in source[edit source]

[[Category:Wp/nys/{{subst:ucfirst:Moort}}]] appears at the top of a page, e.g. Wp/nys/Archie Strang. It is not in the source code, so I can't remove it. Help! p.s. I think it has something to do with the following template as it also happens on the page Wp/nys/Charlene Hedland: {{Baal kwel | Baal = Charlene Hedland | Balang Kwel = Charlene Hedland | Boodjar = Noongar | Moort = | Nartj Wah = | Nartj Birt = Djen Baaminy Yorga | Koorliny nitja boodjar yey = 12/2/1985 | Wirnitj/Noitj Wah = | Koorliny wiern yey = | Nartj boodjar noonar koorliny wiern = | Nartj boodjar baal koorliny = | Waabiny Moort = | Kura Waabiny Moort = {{Authority control}} /}}

Thanks! Contacted User talk:Jon Harald Søby 5 March 2023. Aarghdvaark (talk) 00:13, 5 March 2023 (UTC)Reply

Translate your English-only pages or not?[edit source]

Over several years, I found that your contributions, mainly under Wp/nys, are generally English-only, which results several concerns about Wp/nys project quality as discussed on RFL page, generally too many users oppose such creation as this can just be done via English Wikipedia. Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 05:16, 1 January 2024 (UTC)Reply

- Basically no. Not sure which users you are talking about or what RFL page? There are not many fluent Noongar speakers, I think far too few to maintain a purely Noongar language Wikipedia. Noongar is an oral language, which has been regulated so that it can be used as a written language. But there are obvious difficulties e.g. spelling, which is irrelevant in an oral language. Luckily English is not fussy about spelling either. People are learning Noongar, but I think it will be a long time before sufficient people are fluent enough to maintain a purely Noongar language Wikipedia. But also the true foundation of Noongar community is orality, which by definition is very difficult to align with a literary project such as Wikipedia. Hence I think currently many fluent Noongar speakers would find Wikipedia overwhelmingly alien and would not engage with it.

There are many more (perhaps 8,000) people/Noongar who speak neo-Nyungar, which is an W:Australian Aboriginal Language. This is basically a distinct and complex, rule-governed variety of English, with an admixture of some Noongar words and grammar. Making the Noongarpedia purely Noongar would paradoxically exclude these people - which would be a bad thing!

We have tried to navigate these issues in an inclusive and sensitive way, by including text in any of the old 15 Noongar dialects, or the currently recognised 3 Noongar dialects and the LOTE Noongar (Language other than English) standard. And by using very common Noongar words such as 'wer' for 'and' etc. in normal text. The main target audience is the majority of Noongar who are not fluent in Noongar but are literate in English.

I think the Noongarpedia is not a end in itself but a bridge between the people who are fluent in Noongar, the elders who are the guardians of the culture, the Noongar who do not speak Noongar, and most crucially between the past and the future. It is a repositary to hold some of the knowledge of the Noongar in a Western form, which will be needed at least until Noongar can either rebuild their oral knowledge or transition to a Noongar speaking society which uses Western technology. But a bridge allows two-way traffic and a secondary audience is all the people of WA, especially those interested in finding out about the Noongar moort and country. Aarghdvaark (talk)