User talk:Aryaz

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Welcome to my User Talk Page.

Ansuf zzay-wm ghar tasna n umsawal inu.

--Aryaz 19:39, 14 January 2010 (UTC) Azul agma..

Tasna tamzwarut[edit source]

la photo wikipedia est très grande et aussi les écritures.. ça prend presque toute la page..ce qui donne un aperçu très mauvais.. sachant que c’est la page d’accueill, j' ai essayé de la mettre à jour mais tu as tout annulé.. essaye de ne pas annuler les modifications sans intérêt.. stp trouve une solution je suis là pour t’aider.. de même pour toi..

Les préfixes[edit source]

il en tout 232 articles, catégories, Template,dans le Wikipedia tarifit.. mais comme tu vois c'est juste 56 qui apparaissent sur la première page ... tu doit a chaque fois ajouter au dessous de chaque article..cette notations :

Tableau récupératif[edit source]

J’ai travaillé bcp pour le projet de tachelhit et j' ai créer bcp de tableau récuperatif que tu peux bien utilisé pour les articles de tarifit pas de problème pour les traduction car j' ai respecter et utilisé le tamazight imun..

Tout mais encouragementS JE SUIS TRES HEUREUX QUE TU REPRENNET LES TRAVEAUX DE CE PROJET TANMMIRT --Dalinanir 15:55, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

Azul Dalinanir[edit source]

Azul Dalinanir,

Thank you very much for your contributions to the Tamazight Tarifit.

I rolled back the changes you made to the Tasna Tamzwarut page because they were meaningless.

Yes, you are right about the prefix Wp/rif, I will continue to add it to all the pages.

I don't know what you mean with "Tableau récupératif", can you shed some light on that ?

Besides, I want to adopt the normal/popular notations of Tamazight (gh and â instead of ɣ ε).

Also I want to eliminate the "e" because it's useless (except in some cases).

(Check my message here: [1]).

In the end, we must know that Tamazight language is one in essence. Wikipedia is a chance for us all to practically unify Tamazight and develop it.

Tanmmirt aṭṭas, --Aryaz 16:43, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

Ok Aryaz[edit source]

Tasna tamzwarut[edit source]

Juste pour tu dire que je suis pas d' accord avec toi..

  • Comme je tu dis cette page d’accueille doit être plus jolie les modification que tu a fais sont inutile
  • L’adoption des caractères (tamazight latin) est déjà discuter et bien étudié moi et toi ne nous somme pas des spécialiste de langue on ai des contributeurs, de plus nos amis chleuh et kabyle ont adopté ses caractères et y a pas de désaccord la dessus.. Wikipedia est une organisation très sérieuse.. Je sais que c'est embêtant d’écrire tamazight avec un clavier français.. tamazight est indépendante de français et de l’anglais c'est même cette déférence qui marque les langues..ON DOIT PAS INVENTER DES CHOSES MAIS RESPECTER CE QUI ES DEJA BIEN ETUDIER PAR LES SPECIALISTES... ceux qui vont venir vont se perdre et finiront par abandonné..( voir le cas Eko)..
  • Raisonne toi et reste avec nous en groupe.. Les discutions c'est pour avancé les choses
  • De plus ce qui manque ces projet c’est les contributeurs. tu dois voir si tu peux faire un peux de promotion pour ça le reste ça viendras tout seul..

exemple de tableau récuperatif:[edit source]

sbbanya ici tu trouve

  • Template:Wp/rif/Infobox tamurt ( ce si est un tableau récuperatif)

tout les template lié a ce dernier ont pour préfixe (shi) ça doit ettre normalement (rif) et ce là est faute de temps. je pense que c'est ici que dois te concenter.. avec tachelhit et taqbaylit on partage bcp de mots peut ettre que tu dois faire des traduction qui sont propre a tarifit moi je trouve des déficulté car mon niveau est plus bas par rapprt a toi ..

Sbbanya[edit source]

En cittant cette exemple je veux bien savoir: Est ce que vous dite sbbanya ou sblyun je pense que le mot le plus répendu c'est Sblyun.. a toi de m' informer ..

facebook[edit source]

je veux bien creer une page sur facebook pour inviter d' autre personne a nous rejoindre.. car c'est pas nous deux seul que pense tu?

Tanmmirt --Dalinanir 20:12, 22 January 2010 (UTC)


Aryaz, may I know why my name was removed and replaced by yours from the contributions history ? I need to do some catch up here.

Pour répondre à Dalinanir : De quoi parlez-vous ? Vous ne savez même pas pourquoi j'ai dû prendre mes distances avec ce projet. J'étais à un moment donné le seul contributeur et je suis à l'origine de plus des 80 % des articles sur ce projet. Mon nom a été supprimé de l'historique des contributions, je ne sais pourquoi. Au lieu de pérorer avec mon cas, je n'ai rien inventé, je reprends les travaux de l'IRCAM et de l'INALCO, je ne m'auto-proclame pas linguiste. Quelques contributions dans la rédactions des articles nous aideraient au lieu de philosopher sur ce que vous ne savez pas. Quant à Sblyun, ce n'est pas berbère ni même du darija. En tamazight, c'est Ṣbanya, point final, vous pouvez le prononcer Spanya mais la lettre "p" n'existe pas en berbère. Eh oui, on n'écrit pas forcément comme on prononce, les relations grapho-phonematiques sont complexes pas seulement en tarrifit. --Eko 09:13, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

Mass Dalinanir[edit source]

Azul Dalinanir,

Thank you for your interest.

Well,

It's not about beauty and form now. It's about functionality and content. I am mostly busy with filling in the pages with content and correcting the endless mistakes.

Everybody seems to have a big problem with capital letters.


But you are always welcome to enhance and improve the Tarifit pages, but don't destroy what I did.

About the Tira n Tmazight issue, I know that Tamazight should be independent from English and French, but, since we are adopting the Latin script, we have to do it properly, not mix between Greek and Latin letters.

The letters ɣ and ε are unknown to the greater majority of the Amazigh people. These letters alienate Tamazight from Imazighn. Just because Iqbayliyn use them doesn't mean we should follow them !!

There is nothing special or scientific about gh or ɣ. It's just a way of spelling. We need to choose what is best for Tamazight and what is close to the people.

I follow the linguists' works closely ..Moroccan, Algerian and European. Even among those linguists there are differences in spelling (some of them use ɣ others use ġ, or they use š instead of c, some of them write the schwa ("e") others don't...

For example IRCAM does not write the schwa letter e while the Kabylian linguists do!

Sbbanya maci Sbnyul[edit source]

No, in Tamazight Tarift we say only Sppanya (we never say Sbnyul) but since there is no P in Tamazight, we have to write it like this: Sbbanya.

We say Talimant, not Talalmanit.

We say Swisra not Laswis.

We say Inglatirra not Lingliz.

We say Tinglizt or Tanglanzit not Lingliziya or Taglizit.

We say Italya or Atayal not Ṭṭalyan, etc.

N.B.[edit source]

I don't know what happened with Eko, but if you're implying that I might abandon this, you're mistaken.

What our Amazigh projects need is not promotion! it's content! Editing and editing and editing!

Also translation (Localization) is very important. (Maybe we could work together on it?)

I am always open to discussion.

I am not a fan of facebook or twitter. But it might be a good way to attract some serious contributors to Wikipedia.

--Aryaz 22:19, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

Hi Mass Aryaz..[edit source]

Deux choses majeures montrent que ton travail n'est pas sérieux

  • 1. Vouloir choisir des caractères nouveaux pour écrire tarifit
  • 2. Tourner au tour de la version arabe des mots
  • 3. ne pas accepter que d’autre y participe a ce projet..
  • 4. Tu pense que ce qui ce fait là tu concerne et ne concerne pas les autres.
  • 5. le projet ne sortiras pas de stade test sauf si il est bien approuvé..

et ce n’est ni ta décision ni la mienne..

Je tu conseille de laisser faire les choses comme il doivent se faire.. et accepter les avis des autres et pas les ignoré.. par peur de perde bcp de temps et d’entrer en guère d’adition je tu laisse cher ami les commandes..

hi Aryaz excuse moi de tu faires des remarques mais il faux que tu sache que je suis très content que continue a contribuer..

Tanmmirt Agma --Dalinanir 13:47, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

No demagogy, please ![edit source]

Dalianir,

There are 2 possibilities:

1- Either you don't understand English well enough, so you didn't get what I wrote.

or

2- You really aren't interested in dialogue and genuine discussion.


I don't accept ideas imposed me. I will continue to build Tamazight Tarifit Wikipedia, bit by bit, step by step.


Any contructive effort or contribution will always be welcome, demagogy is not !


I will leave you with this quote:

يقول العلامة محمد شفيق في مقدمة المعجم العربي الأمازيغي:


إذ لا فائدة بالنسبة للمتعلم أن تلقنه ما كان يعلمه. فإذا قلت للفرنسي مثلا أن السيارة تسمى الطوموبيل والسائق يسمى الشيفور والمحرك يسمى الموتور فلن تكون قد علمته ألفاظا عربية. وكذلك إذا قلت للعربي إن الصيف يسمى صّيف وإن مائة هي مْيا وإن السلطة تسمى سّلطا فلن تكون قد علمته ألفاظا أمازيغية


المعجم العربي الأمازيغي، الجزء 1، ص 10.


--Aryaz 14:27, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

Tamazight Talatinit ou clavier amazigh latin[edit source]

Je t’ai fais des remarques pour le beaux yeux de tarifit et de Wikipedia..Et je n’ai pas essayé de tu blessé. Je veux juste que tu rapporte de nouvelle chose à cette première page car il manque et que tu essaye d’écrire en Tamazight Talatinit ou avec clavier amazigh latin ..Pas en tamazight-tafransist ou tamazight-taεrabt. Je tu rappelle que tamazight talatinit est adopter par ircam (tifinagh-latin-Ircam), inalco et c’est avec elle que les nôtres en kabily apprennent a lire et écrire.. Et que c'est déférant de français et de l’anglais. Les règles chez wikipedia sont claire.. Personne n’a le droit d’inventer qq ce soit. J’ai veux aussi que tu a changé tout sur la première page de tamazight imun (ber) .. T’a aussi effacer tout les écritures en tifinagh et remplacer par tamazight- tafransist (en introduisant gh a la place de v ….) ça je trouve aussi mal.. je vais pas changé non plus j' attend que d' autre disebnt ce qu 'il pensent a ce moment tu n'a pas d 'excuse..

TANMMIRT .. AR TUFAT--Dalinanir 17:38, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

Azul Aryaz Oui là t' a raison j'ai pas j' ai refais des recherche l' ircam à adopter officiellement les caractères tifinagh. mais pas une raison d’inventer un autre clavier latin appart celui connue par la plus part d’ entre nous ..reste a tu dire que certain personne utilise aussi des chiffres pour écrire certain lettres comme (9=ع =3 ح =7 ق ... ) et c 'est pas parce qu’ 'il écrive ainsi que ne devons les suivent. il y une anglet en bas de la page qui peux t’aider (tachelhit/tarifit) si non tu peux utilisé une page externe et travailler avec clavier amazigh latin.. Merci bcp pour la discutions. on se verras pour d' autre choses et je tu demanderai de l 'aide au cas ou j' en ai besoin tanmmirt

Timnsiwin --Dalinanir 21:20, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

Aryaz Tifawin!

J’ai bcp penser a ça mais ce qui ce fait sur le web ne m'intéresse pas, les gents écris selon leur clavier, aussi il cherche la chose la plus simple. La plus part de gens aussi écrit n' importe quoi en arabe et en français mais ça n' rien de français ou anglais comme langue officielles. je tiens bcp a ce qui est écris par tout aussi dans les livres. MAIS TOUT CELA NE M'EMPECHE PAS DE NOTER CE QUE DE VIENT ME DIRE C’EST JUSTE ET VRAIS POUR CERTAIN ZONE ET PAS POUR LES AUTRE.. tachelhit s’étend de l’atlas jusque au fend de sahara.. la prononciation des mots changent de zone en zone de ait ba3mran et assa zag de celle d ' Idawtanan , ḥaḥa et et Imin tanout.. Autre exemple le Chtouka Ait baḥa utilise le (ḥ) ou lieu de (ɣ). (riɣ = je veux) (riḥ= je veux).

  • Oui je donne bcp en tachelhit c' est pourquoi je fais très attention a ces dialecte de tachelhit. qq fois je me demande si deux contributeur peuvent bien suffire pour p.tacelhit...

Ok Aryaz tu es donc de mon coté a écrire plus simple. oui c' est ce qui donne a la langue tinglizit sa force et son étendu..Mais je reste attaché au caractère tamazight talatinit pour bien marqué notre différance d’écrire et aussi de bien écrire ce qui ce dis.

DONC:

  • je suis d' accord avec toi pour les écritures des mot sans (e)sauf pour tacelḥit( déja discuté)
    • Peut éttre qu' il sera accepter les notations (rh غ) et le (kh خ).
  • je reste fidele au clavier tamazight latin car c’est plus simple.
  • je ferai mon possible d’inviter les autres ou discutions
  • comment on écrit sur les forums ne m’intéresse pas de tout car y a pas de règle..
  • je tien a la sérieusité de Wikipedia et ne pas inventer de nouvelle façon d’écrire.
  • tant pis c’est ça me fait bcp de travaille sur des clavier des autres langues . c’ est pas une raison de sortir de rang.

Mes salutations les plus sincères

--Dalinanir 11:02, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

HI ARYAZ..[edit source]

Please no unnecessary changes.. svp pas de modifications inutiles c'est une page wikipedia et pas une page personnel.. --Maryana 20:49, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

Inuḍafen n unasiw[edit source]

Azul! J'ai un site web avec des pilotes clavier pour Tarifit et Taclḥit (Tifinaɣ/Talatinit): http://www.akufi.org/kab/tools/downloads.html (traduction en cours..) Svp envoyez-moi un message pour en savoir plus. Anderssakoul 16:13, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

Writing Tamaziɣt - local and universal[edit source]

It makes sense to write Berber across the Berber world using the same letters for the same sounds - whether in Latin or Tifinagh script. Then it doesn't matter if someone writes haqbaylit or taqbaylit. (But it helps if non-essential sound variations are not written, like th and dh in Kabyle). That's stage 1.

To make most sense to people, each zone (Rif, Centre, South), should spell words in the way that makes sense for that zone. People's writing would move with time towards a compromise in each zone.

For example, in some zones, the schwa 'e' is pronounced more clearly, and writing it makes the language easier to read and write, because the syllables are clearer. In other zones, the schwas have almost disappeared. So you'd write amddakʷl-nk in the Souss, and ameddakel-ik in Kabylie. No problem.

Writing in each zone using the same letters means that Berbers in one zone can read text from another zone, with practice. It also means that stage 2 is possible:-

Stage 2 would be a single converged literary form of Northern Berber. Instead of trying to spell the Berber of each zone in a more universal way, start to use a universal Berber form, with its own ISO code, for literature and wikis, *in addition to the regional forms*. Doing this means that the potential literary community that a writer can reach is much bigger.

Start off by agreeing a set of consensus basic words for the structure of the sentence. Then allow vocabulary from everywhere, as long as the meaning is not contradictory. When combined, the language is massively richer. Over time, writers will prefer some words over others. Sometimes there will be more than one possible form, including import words from Arabic, French, or Spanish. This makes a language stronger, and encourages variety of style. Slowly, a consensus will emerge. Look how the English of the regions began to become standard. a) By decree - Chancery English, needed for official records. The more practical pronouns of the North were adopted, and mixed with other forms from the West and South. And b) over time - by practice, as people became one literary community.

My (free!) keyboard can easily be switched between Tifinagh and Latin, is ergonomic for touch typing, allows French and Spanish mixing, and has letters needed for Moroccan/Algerian forms of Northern Berber as well as Tuareg.

There are layouts to match e.g. Spanish, French and QWERTY physical keyboards, to help Berber expatriates.

There's also a separate version 100% compatible with French AZERTY for Internet cafes or for people who type mainly French. It's slower to type Berber, but all the keys stay in familiar places.

Aryaz, you're right that a lot of localization is needed. Anyone who would like to help with that, or help to translate literature between Berber varieties, or help to create a practical universal Northern Berber form, send me a message! It's an exciting time for Tamaziɣt!

Anderssakoul 16:55, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

Latin letters[edit source]

Of course, for a quick SMS or email when you're stuck with the wrong keyboard or a Berber-unfriendly application, writing 'gh', '7', '9' is useful. Everyone does it sometimes. But for normal text, why not keep it clean? The extra Berber Latin letters are not difficult to learn, and you only need to do it once! And using the Latin form of ɣƔ for normal legible writing doesn't mean that you can't sometimes use the Greek capital form for calligraphic effect for posters, signs or magazine pages. Anderssakoul 17:24, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

Tira n Tmazight[edit source]

Thank you Anderssakoul for your input.

I agree with most of what you said on vacabulary.

However, I don't think that writing the schwa "e" facilitates Amazigh pronunciation at all. Sometimes, writing the schwa leads to complications for those who are trying to learn Tamazight. For example:

Kabylians prefer to write azref instead of azrf.

The plural becomes izerfan (and not izrefan) (did you notice the shift the schwa?). This instability of the schwa leads to confusion for the fresh learner.

Whilst if we write azrf and izrfan it's much easier to pronounce and to write (espeacially for children who are learning the language).


Not writing the schwa does not mean that it doesn't exist. It's just easier and more economic not to write it.

NB: The schwa has no phonological value in northern Amazigh varieties.


When it comes to the gh and ɣ issue, I prefer gh because it's a knowm Latin combination. The ɣ / Γ is a Greek letter unknown to the public!

Why use a Greek letter when we have plenty of easy alternatives in the Latin script??

If we use ɣ for academic reasons then why not use the rest of IPA international standards to write Tamazight ??

Why not use ʃ instead of c ?

Why not use instead of  ?


I think that the easiest way is to write:

Amazigh instead of Amaziɣ

Muḥmmd bn Âli Amkraz instead of Muḥemmed ben Ɛli Amekraz.


If we want to use the Latin international alphabet for Tamazight, we should exploit it well, and we should keep it simple.

--Aryaz 17:40, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

Hi aryaz,

Writers in different zones can write the 'e' wherever makes sense for them. Yes, the schwa moves depending on affixes on the word etc, and it's not phonemic. But: its behaviour is consistent in each region, even if the rules for inserting the schwa differ from place to place. (There seem to be 3 major rule systems in use) It facilitates learning because it shows the syllabic structure more clearly (except for Chleuh, where it's arguable).

The point where concensus on 'e' rules would need to emerge would be for a converged Berber form.

For the other letters I'd go with literary convention for normal writing, while allowing pragmatic use of 'gh' etc for SMS etc. As I said, I use that all the time. It's not a huge step for people to learn the extra letters. After all, you're happy with ḥ instead of h'. For sure it's less hassle than learning Tifinaɣ ;-) (I'm a big big fan of Tifinaɣ, by the way) Anderssakoul 17:56, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

Extending existing convention for writing both Northern Berber and Tuareg, in Latin and in Tifinaɣ[edit source]

It's possible to take this idea even further,and write the same sounds the same way in Northern Berber varieties and Tuareg varieties,even with the same keyboards and fonts: http://www.akufi.org/tools/dld/writingberber.pdf Anderssakoul 18:17, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

Tira[edit source]

And I am big fan of Tifinagh too.

I don't think that "gh" is only for SMS or Twitter. I think it's a very easy and popular letter combination among Imazighn. Why ignore it, and import the Greek "ɣ" which nobody really knows.

The majority of Imazighn prefer "gh", why alienate them?


I don't see how "e" facilitates learning Tamazight.

What's the difficulty in reading the words azrf, acnyal, smmus, amddukl, acffar, aslmd ?

Besides, it economizes space and typing time.


There is no pan-Amazigh consensus on writing the schwa. There is only a Kabylian consensus among Kabylian linguists and writers.

IRCAM in Morocco doesn't write "e" as you know.


However, there are some cases where writing "e" is very useful and important:

expamles: imqqranen, imẓẓyanen, tilelli, ... etc.

(IRCAM adopts this methodology too.)

--Aryaz 19:18, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

The aryaz compression algorithm..[edit source]

So you'd skip writing 'e' to economize space, but write 'gh' for 'ɣ'? ;-) Anderssakoul 20:15, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

Schwa[edit source]

No, economizing space is not the primary reason of course.

Although, schwa is present in almost every Amazigh word, unlike "gh".

--Aryaz 21:02, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

Inuḍafen n unasiw[edit source]

Maintenant les téléchargements functionnent bien sur le site http://www.akufi.org/kab/ - travaux pendant la traduction, je m'excuse. http://www.akufi.org/kab/tools/downloads.html Anderssakoul 02:31, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

The akufi keyboard is designed:

- for Tuareg to be typed just as easily as Northern Berber, since it's a sister language

- to have Kabyle features as well as Moroccan features such as kʷ, gʷ

- also Tifinagh 'v' can be typed easily, such as in import words where it's probably better written as 'v' than 'b'. And Tifinagh 'p' is needed for some Algerian placenames.

- You can type Tifinagh (and Latin) 'th', 'dh', 'bh' and spirant k and g quickly for occasional dialogue written explicitly in dialect.

- There's a full set of technical symbols for programming etc.

- Most major punctuation for writing stays on the same keys of the physical keyboard.

- It's optimized for typing Berber quickly. You can either type slowly but simply, using shift+AltGr for CAPITALS, or touch type ergonomically without crossing the hands, by adding diacritics like the dot below by deadkey for capitals (AltGr is ergonomic and fast for lower case).

- You can still type occasional French text or Spanish words, and even the details of French orthography are supported on non-AZERTY layouts

- There's a non-breaking hyphen "-" for situations like "iman-is" where you don't want to break a long word+affixes between lines, and it's very fast to type

- It's designed to work anywhere in the Berber-speaking zones, and even outside, for expatriates, for example with its Spanish or Canadian flavours

- The universality idea is, if you use Tifinagh but you're in a different country and the local keyboard is default Latin (or vice versa), you can just flip it with caps lock, and still type in the same way. Everyone's local Berber flavour can be typed somehow on it, even if it's an obsolete or unusual orthography, though that would be more awkward to type. I've tried to accommodate Zenaga and Siwi but I still don't know enough about them to be sure.

- There are other typographical features too, and phonetic symbols for linguists.

There are 3 styles of typing to make it easy for different people - IRCAM Tifinagh keyboard style, simple intuitive Latin style where g+caron is AltGr+g, and touch type/symmetrical style where you type the same keys for Tifinagh and Latin.

Besides the Berber-optimized keyboard layout (easy one-press typing of letters like ɣ that you're allergic to!), there's also a compatibility keyboard that's designed to provide Berber in Internet cafes on a 100% French AZERTY keyboard without confusing people. It's not as ergonomic for Berber as the main keyboard, especially not for Tifinagh, but it's built so that its Berber features match the main keyboard. So you can start using the French one and move to the Berber one, or use both sometimes, without getting too confused.

I need to put the last updates into the manual and get it translated into Berber or French. Anderssakoul 13:06, 22 February 2010 (UTC)


STOP[edit source]

Moroccan stop sign in Arabic and Berber.jpg

Stop please writing with another translitteration that is not accepted nor acceptable.

Stop redirecting by copying content from another page and creating a new one : that's VANDALISM, as by doing so, you erase the list of contributors and the history.

Stop cause I won't keep reverting your modifications. I want to have time writing articles.

This is not you who decide which translitteration we have to use. There is an existing one and we have to follow it.

Stop ruining this project. --Eko 19:51, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

Let me be clear once for all. We use the translitteration as we have to

I quote the approval process "Approval process : verify test project content with a reliable neutral source, such as a professor or expert." Don't use gh, â please. We could pass the approval process if we remain active and we use the RIGHT translitteration, I haven't invented it , I simply learned it and I use it whether I like it or no. So, be reasonnable for the good of this project. Merruk is used by Algerians not by the majority of Moroccans. --Eko 10:02, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

Don't make confusion between French/Englsih transcriptiion and tamaziɣt notation!
In English speaking countries they spell the name محمد Muhammad but in France, they spell it Mohamed or Mohammed. If they don't use Γizlan to spell Ghizlan, it's because they don't use the letter Γ in their alphabet, but in tamaziɣt we use it, it's part of our agemmay alatini. So again, please use the conventional alphabet. Yes the approval process is also about consistency. By the two of us and a third one, the project could be approved this year. I do not want to have to revert your modifications, do it yourself please, as you seem to like tarifit as I do, but let's agree on the translitteration icelḥiyen and iqbaliyen use. If you like, just create the page Amerruk (Algerian influence), but redirect it to wp/rif/Lmeɣrib (name used by most Moroccans, darija, tamaziɣt). --Eko 11:09, 8 May 2010 (UTC)
Tawiza is dead as a dodo. If I use Lmeɣrib it's because it's the name most Moroccans use and IRCAM as well! We're not the specialists, IRCAM, INALCO are our sources. --Eko 12:21, 8 May 2010 (UTC)
Before blocking you, look closer at tawiza website. Whether you use the right notation, and you are welcome or I will have to let you go. I don't have time to lose with stupid caprices. --Eko 12:43, 8 May 2010 (UTC)
I've sent an email to MF-Warburg. I hope he would agree to have a look at this madness of yours. You're completely crazy and you proved it by trying to block me for one year! You blocked Maryana because he used the right notation!
http://incubator.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wp%2Frif%2FAgmmay_A%C3%A2rab&action=historysubmit&diff=358995&oldid=356959
And nobody told you anything, it's over now that I'm here. I wish I didn't have to call for the help of an administrator. --Eko 15:15, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

Change of alphabet[edit source]

Do you think it's possible to switch from latin alphabet to IRCAM neo-tifinagh (tfng) alphabet adopted in Morocco ⴰⴱⴳⴷⴺⴻⴼⴽⵀⵃⵄⵅⵇⵉⵊⵍⵎⵏⵓⵔⵕⵖⵙⵚⵜⵟⵡⵢⵣⵥⵯ

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tifinagh_Ircam

It might not have a valid code (ISO 15924) but for our project wp/rif, this might be the easiest way to get over our disagreement in transcription and spelling. I'll leave the same message to MF-Warburg. --Eko 17:19, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

Azul. I am experimenting a tifinagh page on one of my user pages with new templates also in tifinagh, I plan to make a table with latin and arabic equivalents in the first page. It takes everyone around 5 minutes to learn this alphabet. You can check my work here ⵜⴰⵙⵏⴰ ⵜⴰⵎⵣⵡⴰⵔⵓⵜ though it's not finished. You can download dictionaries, Tifawin a Tamazight 5 and other books here http://www.ircam.ma/fr/index.php?soc=publi, they are all in tifinagh. We could use them for our spelling. --Eko 10:25, 13 May 2010 (UTC)
Yes I know, see my discussion with the administrator MF-Warburg in his discussion page, we were talking about the Serbian wikipedia. We are the only contributors, if you agree we could start experimenting tifinagh and when it's approved we would work on a script to convert tifinagh to latin (if needed). Do your own tests in tifinagh and tell me. It's much easier to write in tifinagh. For drivers and fonts, no worry, they are here http://www.ircam.ma/fr/index.php?soc=telec
I am right now working on this new ⵜⴰⵙⵏⴰ ⵜⴰⵎⵣⵡⴰⵔⵓⵜ. --Eko 11:04, 13 May 2010 (UTC)
I give you an example
the word ⵜⵉⵍⵍⴻⵍⵉ : tilleli
and the word ⴰⵙⵍⵎⴰⴷ aselmad
how are we doing to tell that in the first word, schwa must not be removed, but that in the second one it have to be taken out?
I'm just pointing out difficulties, I'm not saying that -e has to be removed in latin.
If there are ways to determine which schwa has to be removed, well all's well that ends well. So let's write tifinagh to end that dispute over gh/ɣ and so on. I was hoping that wp/shi community would take part in the debate, so far I have no news. MF-Warburg won't decide for us, that's up to us and my decision is made for the good of wp/rif: the best solution is to write in tifinagh until the project is approved then contributors would be able to create a script to convert in latin. --Eko 13:13, 13 May 2010 (UTC)
Sorry for the mispelling ⵜⵉⵍⵍⴻⵍⵉ, it's of course ⵜⵉⵍⴻⵍⵍⵉ. But you are mistaken about the plural. Look at Tifawin a Tamazight 5 (you can download it), for the plural, there's no ⴻ. imeqqranen is spelled ⵉⵎⵇⵇⵔⴰⵏⵏ. Let's write in tifinagh, later we hope to merge tamazight wikipedias but for now, we have a task : to make a decent tarifit wikipedia and the best way to achieve this is to write in tifinagh. We are both test administrators, we are the only contributors for now. I cannot make the decision for the two of us, so my question is do you agree to switch to tifinagh as we will never agree to questions pertaining to latin translitteration. Today, it's Aryaz and Eko, tomorrow others will have the same dispute which nobody will have if we use tifinagh. If you're ok, let's start renaming pages (using the tab "move" or "renommer") to keep history of pages. By the way, we use IRCAM dictionaries, in the article wp/rif/ⴱⴰⵔⴰⴽ ⵓⴱⴰⵎⴰ, it's not ⴰⵙⵍⵡⴰⵢ but ⴰⵅⴰⵜⴰⵔ according to IRCAM. I am about to finish the first verion of ⵜⴰⵙⵏⴰ ⵜⴰⵎⵣⵡⴰⵔⵓⵜ, there is always some tweaking to do.--Eko 15:03, 13 May 2010 (UTC)
It's not a question of preference, linguistics is not about preference but constitency. Because according to you, people don't know tifinagh, we should stop using tifinagh but do you think they know the words we're using? When you people will stop thinking that IRCAM is dominated by isusiyen, maybe once, we'll have a standardized tamazight. I'm sorry that I can't let you use gh instead of ɣ nor â instead of ε. I recall to you that the idea of using tifinagh is aimed to put an end to this "war" and that latin could be included when the project is approved. You mention "Moroccans" or "nobody" as if what you say is true for everybody. And what about if I say to you that people I've met like tifinagh and don't like latin, can I make a generality of that from the testimonies of those people? See ⵜⴰⵙⵏⴰ ⵜⴰⵎⵣⵡⴰⵔⵓⵜ, I have included the table of tifinagh. --Eko 16:57, 13 May 2010 (UTC)
Well what have you done for the "future of tamazight" except vandalizing? : everyone can see your contributions http://incubator.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Contributions&limit=500&contribs=user&target=Aryaz, it's all about blanking my pages and copying/pasting my articles to pages you've created with a different name or a different spelling or change all the spelling (ɣ by gh, removing -e, replacing ε by â...) of articles I've written. You're absolutely useless, I wonder why I'm having this debate with you. I hope real contributors will show up, from now on my goal is to prevent you from vandalizing this project. As for the main page, it's so rubbish since you've touched it.--Eko 09:10, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
Very limited indeed, it's my mother tongue you cheeky boy. I speak it every day. Your work is not about quality. What I've done, have you done just done 1% of it? Every article concerning people (writers, singers...) begins this way, with an infobox and information about date of birth and so on. What do you call a mistake of mine? For example, you've replaced in one of my articles argaz by aryaz, don't you know that Riffians do also say argaz and that I'm among them? In another article you've replaced tamẓa by taghznt, don't you know that Riffians use tamẓa or the darija word lɣula? You replaced the word ṛṛebbi by yakuc, what do you know of the word yakuc? Let me laugh about Tafriqt instead of Ifriqya which is used by IRCAM and used by speakers of the three tamazight in Morocco. About the numerours errors, what do you have, a PhD in tarifit? You've made me laugh, congratulations. I use IRCAM spelling and I don't care of what you think, I'm using an official corpus, an official translitteration. No, you are the desperate one. We'll never come to an agreement as you're not a contributor but a vandal. Can you give me an example of mistakes I've done, no you can't as basically what you've done is removing -e, putting -gh and â here and there or replacing words by words you're using in your douar or used in kab wiki. As for the French calques, "Lmerruk" is a good one for you, I won't let you redirect Lmeɣrib to Lmerruk, it's hopeless! As for Arabic, in every language there are words from another language, French which is also my tongue is a good example and I use them when there are no equivalents recognized by IRCAM although I know there is an amawal used mainly by Kabyls. I'm just waiting for serious contributors, in the same time I'm reverting your vandalizing modifications and your meaningless contributions. PS: Tifinagh or Latin, it is the same for me, but if we write latin, we write it the good way that is ɣ, not gh! Now, don't bother me in my discussion page unless you have some relevant things to tell me, but that, I don't know if you are capable of. Good bye.--Eko 11:45, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

Azul[edit source]

Azul agma nk d amazigh n Merruk anammas!! Uremkh ad irukh yan umgrad amaynu g wikipedia n Tclḥit ur in3dal!! Maras skerkh at urukh?? Rarid... Tanmirt. --Muhand Umhand 12:26, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

Test-adminship expiring[edit source]

Hello, please note that your test-adminship is expiring today. You can re-apply for it. --MF-W {a, b} 20:26, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

Prolonged on 25 January 2011, it has now expired. --MF-W {a, b} 23:17, 29 January 2012 (UTC)