Talk:Wp/cop/ⲥⲁϫⲓ `ⲙⲃⲉⲣⲓ `ⲛⲣⲉⲙⲛⲭⲏⲙⲓ

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I will start a page about Coptic neologisms: ⲥⲁϫⲓ `ⲙⲃⲉⲣⲓ `ⲛⲣⲉⲙⲛⲭⲏⲙⲓ.

I will just list some words by alphabetical order, somebody else may set up a fancier layout. ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ (talk) 21:38, 18 December 2017 (UTC)

Reconstructed words for Coptic[edit]

I will list here some Demotic words for which I (or somebody else in literature) reconstructed it with a Coptic pronunciation. Every time when we need a new word with a special meaning, way me take these here into consideration for creating a new word. The translation given is the meaning of the word in Demotic.

  • ⲃⲱⲃⲉⲗ Demotic bbl Hieroglyphic bbr / bābilu Babylon
  • ⲡⲓⲑⲁⲥⲉⲙ Hieroglyphic ṯzm < kzm greyhound (Pre-Egyptian *kizVm dog)
  • ϯⲟⲩⲏⲃⲓ Demotic wˁb(.t) priestess
  • ⲡⲓϣⲱⲥⲓ Demotic ḫ3s.t, ḫ3sy.(t) Hieroglyphic ḫ3s.t desert, necropolis
  • ⲡⲓϩⲱⲕ Demotic hq(3) / ḥōq Hieroglyphic ḥq3 / ḥāqi3 ruler

Discussion[edit]

How would you reconstruct a word for pyramid? I believe it's mr in Hieroglyphic, should it be something like ⲙⲟⲩⲣ in Coptic? I was also thinking about the name for Levant. How would you reconstruct rṯnw? Thank you! --Bloomaround (talk) 07:04, 27 December 2017 (UTC)

You are right about the Hieroglyphic m.r for pyramid. I used ⲙⲏⲓⲣⲓ (ⲙⲏⲣ in Sahidic) for pyramid before in [[|||||||Wp/cop/ⲁⲥⲥⲟⲩⲧⲁⲛ|ⲁⲥⲥⲟⲩⲧⲁⲛ]] which means a bundle (i.e., a bundle of rocks), ⲙⲟⲩⲣ is the verbal form which means to bind. --ⲡⲓⲙⲟⲩⲓ (talk) 11:08, 27 December 2017 (UTC)
As for Levant, we could use something like ⲙⲁ `ⲛⲥⲏⲙ or ⲑⲟ `ⲛⲥⲏⲙ. In Arabic, the word Levant is translated literally as 'Bilad al-Sham' (Lands of Shem), as Sham probably stands for Shem (son of Noah). --ⲡⲓⲙⲟⲩⲓ (talk) 11:23, 27 December 2017 (UTC)
I will see if I can reconstruct a secure pronunciation of the words. The word for pyramid "mr" is rather not related to ⲙⲏⲓⲣⲓ and ⲙⲟⲩⲣ, and the latter two are for sure no direct descendants, as the r of mr was lost in the 2nd millennium BC (like in nfr and all other words ending in r). Depending on the vowel in mr, it can have different outcomes in Coptic. If it was a for instance, it would be ⲙⲟⲩ (most probably u because of the m which turns o into u) ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ (talk) 23:05, 2 January 2018 (UTC)
I dont' think شام refers to Noah's son, as he is called سام in Arabic. بلاد الشام means rather 'the cities/countries of Damascus', because الشام is Damascus (next to دمشق). Unfortunately, the word rṯnw was obsolete in Late Egyptian, and it seems it was not used in Demotic at all. It is therefore more difficult to reconstruct its pronunciation. Either we create a Coptic one, or we could take ⲗⲉⲃⲁⲛⲧⲉⲥ from Greek. First I didn't want to take the Western one, but forms related to "Levant" are pretty widespread, even in non-European languages like Hebrew (and Chinese, but that is not important for us). ⲁϣϣⲁⲙ from Arabic is another option, because in Arabic it sometimes refers to the city (which is ⲧⲁⲙⲁⲥⲕⲟⲥ/ⲇⲁⲙⲁⲥⲕⲟⲥ in Coptic), sometimes to the Levant. ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ (talk) 15:59, 9 January 2018 (UTC)
You're right about "Levant". On the other hand, i don't know if Hebrew had a native word for the whole territory, so it makes sense they've borrowed it. And Arabic for example has it's own word so there was no need to borrow a European one. I think this applies to Coptic as well. How is this "Retenou" or "Retjenou" pronunciation cited in most sources constructed then? Or do you mean this is the Middle Egyptian pronunciation and we lack Demotic one to construct a Coptic one? --Bloomaround (talk) 11:46, 12 January 2018 (UTC)
If we would know the Middle Egyptian pronunciation, that would be perfect because we could construct the Coptic one out of it. The problem here is that retjenou is a modern Egyptological pronunciation, in which the vowel e gets used in every place where the original vowel is not known. Given the fact that Old and Middle Egyptian only had the vowels a i u (Late Egyptian vowel shifts added e and o and a shwa sound) it is almost certain that retjenou is not at all the real pronunciation.
In order to reconstruct Coptic words, we would need either:
  • 1. Data from earlier stages of the language (Proto-Afro-Asiatic/Old/Middle/Late/Demotic pronunciation)
  • 2. Data from other Ancient languages which had the Egyptian word as a loanword or which were the source from which Egyptian loaned a word (i.e. Greek, Akkadian, Nubian)
  • 3. The Egyptian word in so-called group writing (often used for Semitic and Greek loans into Late Egyptian, so we can combine the results of 2. and 3. and get even better results)
The problem with retjenu is that we don't know its etymology. Is it from a Middle Eastern language, probably Semitic? Is it genuinely Egyptian? We don't know anything unfortunately.
There are lots of Middle Eastern place names, however, like Babylon, Gaza, etc..., which show up in Hieroglyphic group writing where we could reconstruct a Coptic name. Coptic actually used Greek names in these cases, though. ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ (talk) 16:35, 12 January 2018 (UTC)
And what if we use ⲧⲉⲛϦⲁⲣ in broader sense of "Levant"? ⲥⲉⲣⲕⲓ (talk) 18:57, 2 October 2018 (UTC)
Or we could use native Coptic ⲡⲓⲙⲁⲛϣⲁⲓ for "Levant" attested by Chernyh which would be even better. And we could use ⲧⲉⲛϦⲁⲣ just for "Syria" ⲥⲉⲣⲕⲓ (talk) 21:47, 16 February 2019 (UTC)

Pyramid[edit]

So, again to mr 'pyramid'. According to Takacs Etymological Dictionary of Egyptian, the etymology of mr is unknown. There are lots of proposals, but nothing is ultimately convincing. However, there is the possibility that it was originally mar (with a short a), which would develop into má, this could yield Coptic ⲙⲁ. However, there is already a common Coptic word ⲙⲁ meaning place. ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ (talk) 02:29, 13 January 2018 (UTC)
Vycichl also connects it to Arabic root ريم and Hebrew rōm "height" (r-m and m-r metathesis). This can also lead to similarities with Arabic أمرة amara “heap of stones, mound”, Akkadian amartu "dividing wall" and Hebrew ʾāmīr "treetop, mountain summit". So i guess ⲙⲁ is a good word for a "pyramid". ⲥⲉⲣⲕⲓ (talk) 22:43, 11 April 2019 (UTC)
There's also a toponym Mr-Ỉtm attested in Greek as Μοιθυμις (modern Meidum) which also verifies "ⲙⲁ" in my opinion. ⲥⲉⲣⲕⲓ (talk) 23:48, 11 April 2019 (UTC)
Wouldnt that rather point to ⲙⲟⲩ or something like that? Also, why does older "a" not shift to o in Coptic? Abdülhamit-i Sâlis (talk) 20:55, 16 April 2019 (UTC)
Why would it? We should also keep in mind plural form mr.w ⲥⲉⲣⲕⲓ (talk) 22:01, 22 April 2019 (UTC)
What do you think about Schenkel's theory about Coptic ⲫⲓⲣⲁⲙ (ⲡ+ϩⲓⲣⲁⲙ, ⲣⲁⲙ stands for Egyptian mr as far as i understood it) being the source of both πυρανισ and هرم? ⲥⲉⲣⲕⲓ (talk) 13:45, 8 June 2019 (UTC)

ϯⲁⲓⲅⲩⲡⲧⲓⲟⲗⲟⲅⲓⲁ ⲛⲉⲙϩⲁⲛⲕⲉⲥⲁϫⲓ ⲛⲉⲙⲗⲟⲅⲓⲁ[edit]

Which word do you prefer for Egyptology? It should be a compound which should correspond to -logy, so we can use it regularly and with order for Western nouns in -logy. We could build it on ⲥⲱⲟⲩⲛ, with ⲥⲟⲩⲉⲛⲭⲏⲙⲓ Egyptology and ⲣⲉϥⲥⲟⲩⲉⲛⲭⲏⲙⲓ Egyptologist. There is another option too. ⲉⲙⲓ in compound form as ⲉⲙⲉⲛⲭⲏⲙⲓ. As ⲣⲉϥⲉⲙⲓ can mean wise men, an Egyptologist would be ⲣⲉϥⲉⲙⲉⲛⲭⲏⲙⲓ. But I think ⲉⲙⲓ is maybe a bit less appropriate here, because it also can mean understand and German kennen/French connaitre, whereas ⲥⲱⲟⲩⲛ is solely to know in the sense of German wissen/French savoir. Ϯⲙⲉⲗⲗⲓⲥⲏⲧ (talk) 15:05, 13 January 2018 (UTC)

I think compounds with ⲥⲟⲩⲉⲛ are a wonderful idea. ⲥⲟⲩⲉⲛⲭⲏⲙⲓ for egyptology, ⲥⲟⲩⲉⲛⲱⲛϧ for biology, etc... ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ (talk) 00:08, 16 January 2018 (UTC)
Ϯⲙⲉⲗⲗⲓⲥⲏⲧ/ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ, I think ⲥⲟⲩⲉⲛⲭⲏⲙⲓ for 'Egyptology' etc would be ungrammatical. Ⲥⲟⲩⲉⲛ- is the prenominal form of the infinitive and can't be completed with a noun in this way to form a compound noun. For this, a construct participle (like ⲙⲁⲓ- "lover of...; -loving" etc) would be needed, which ⲥⲱⲟⲩⲛ does not have (Crum 369b). If you wanted to invent a construct participle for ⲥⲱⲟⲩⲛ then it would probably have the form *ⲥⲁⲟⲩⲛ- (/sawn/) on the basis of the construct participle forms of other CVCC infinitives (e.g. ⲛⲟⲩϣⲡ -> ⲛⲁϣⲡ-, ⲙⲟ(ⲩ)ⲛⲕ -> ⲙⲁⲛⲕ-, ⲕⲱⲣϫ -> ⲕⲁⲣϫ- and ⲕⲱⲗⲡ -> ⲕⲁⲗⲡ-). By the way, I think *ⲥⲁⲟⲩⲛⲭⲏⲙⲓ would be a descriptive noun and therefore (i) if used attributively it would be an adjective "egyptology, egyptological etc" (e.g. *ⲟⲩϫⲱⲙ ⲛ̀ⲥⲁⲟⲩⲛⲭⲏⲙⲓ "an egyptology/-ical book") or (ii) if substantivised it would be a noun meaning "Egyptologist" (e.g. *ⲡⲓⲥⲁⲟⲩⲛⲭⲏⲙⲓ i.e. "the (one) who knows Egypt; the Egypt-know-er"). To form "Egyptology" the abstract prefix ⲙⲉⲧ-/ⲙⲉⲑ- would be needed, forming *ϯⲙⲉⲧⲥⲁⲟⲩⲛⲭⲏⲙⲓ. However, I prefer not to invent new grammatical forms unless absolutely necessary.
An alternative would be to use the construct participle ⲃⲁⲗ- (from infinitive ⲃⲱⲗ "to loosen; melt, dissolve; interpret, explain scriptures etc"). This would closely follow the use of λόγος “explanation” in words such as Egypt-ology (https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/-%CE%BB%CE%BF%CE%B3%CE%AF%CE%B1). Thus, ⲡⲓⲃⲁⲗⲭⲏⲙⲓ would be "Egyptologist" (i.e. "the Egypt-interpreter/explainer") and the abstract noun ϯⲙⲉⲑⲃⲁⲗⲭⲏⲙⲓ would be "Egyptology".
More broadly, "the study/inquiry of..." could be ⲡⲓϫⲓⲛϧⲟⲧϧⲉⲧ ⲛ̀ⲥⲁ and is the form I've preferred to date. - AB
Then, I would still prefer ⲥⲁⲟⲩⲛ- because we may need ⲃⲱⲗ for chemistry. So, ⲥⲁⲟⲩⲛⲭⲏⲙⲓ for egyptologist and ⲙⲉⲧⲥⲁⲟⲩⲛⲭⲏⲙⲓ for egyptology. It would be nice to have precise words and structures, even if that means we have to reconstruct grammatical forms. I mean, the idea that there was a construct state in Egyptian for ⲥⲱⲟⲩⲛ is not really adventurous and would not be some unlinguistic blabla. Ϯⲙⲉⲗⲗⲓⲥⲏⲧ (talk) 16:15, 12 February 2018 (UTC)
Ϯϯⲙⲁϯ ⲛⲉⲙⲁⲕ - AB
Yeah, true, thanks for that information, AB. ⲥⲁⲟⲩⲛ looks more probable. We could even use ⲥⲁⲟⲩⲛⲃⲱⲗ for chemist, and ⲙⲉⲧⲥⲁⲟⲩⲛⲃⲱⲗ for chemistry, because I just thought of German Scheidekunst and Scheidekunde and Dutch Scheikunde (lit. separation-lore or dissolution-lore) for chemistry. Then we could also use ⲁⲗⲭⲏⲙⲓⲁ for alchemy, and the two words wouldnt sound so similar. ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ (talk) 16:44, 12 February 2018 (UTC)

Game[edit]

Hello everyone. To expand articles about football and other games we actually need a word for "game". There's a Demotic word for "to play" – ḥbꜥ which we could use to create a "game", and there's also a compound ı͗r ḥbꜥ.t which means the verb could be also used for a "game" noun right? Please correct me if i'm wrong. ⲡⲁⲣⲇⲁ (talk) 10:00, 8 September 2018 (UTC)

I think you're right but the problem is I think the word is not attested in Coptic and I don't know the vowels in Demotic. There is, however, a word ⲣⲉϥⲕⲓϯ meaning player, gambler in Bohairic. We thus could take ⲕⲓϯ as a word for game. As I think ⲕⲓϯ is actually a verb (Vycichl thinks its a variant of ⲕⲱϯ) because ⲣⲉϥ- is used in combination with verbs, this means that ⲕⲓϯ meant something like gamble and ⲕⲓϯ (as a masculine noun, not feminine, as verbal nouns are always m) would mean playing, gambling, thus play, game. ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ (talk) 04:05, 3 October 2018 (UTC)

غزة[edit]

Which name do you wanna have for Gaza? Rainer Hannig's Egyptian dictionary lists for Gaza not only Gḏt, which is Egyptianized Gaza, but also dmj n mḥ n p3 ḥq3, which means the 'city which the ruler has conquered'. This mḥ n p3 ḥq3 would be in Coptic ⲙⲁϩⲙⲫⲱⲕ (contracted from ⲙⲁϩⲛⲡⲓϩⲱⲕ). So, we could also take ⲙⲁϩⲙⲫⲱⲕ instead of ⲅⲁⲍⲁ. ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ (talk) 00:15, 16 January 2018 (UTC)

I'm not sure we should use ⲙⲁϩⲙⲫⲱⲕ as the main name for Gaza. It has to be mentioned in the article for sure but rather as a historical "native" name, in my opinion. What about Gḏt? Can we reconstruct it? --Bloomaround (talk) 18:40, 16 January 2018 (UTC)
Is it to far-fetched for you?
Most spellings of Gḏt point to a gaḏat-, which could be a ⲕⲱϫⲧ in Coptic. However, nothing is revealed of the quality of the g, and if it would become palatal in late Demotic, it would yield ϫⲱϫⲧ in Bohairic. Furthermore, there is a spelling which points to a pronunciation gaḏaya, and if we think that the forms like gaḏatu came into Egyptian early enough, they would lose the feminine t like ordinary Egyptian words and both gaḏaya (at any time) and a gaḏatu (if it came into Egyptian early) would yield ⲕⲱϫⲓ or ϫⲱϫⲓ. ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ (talk) 20:55, 16 January 2018 (UTC)
With "early" I mean centuries before the New Kingdom, before Late Egyptian was spoken. 20:57, 16 January 2018 (UTC)
I wouldn't say it's far-fetched because it's not made up and actually existed. Let's wait for others' opinion anyway. I would rather use ⲕⲱϫⲓ or ϫⲱϫⲓ if you'd ask me. --Bloomaround (talk) 13:14, 19 January 2018 (UTC)
Me too, the problem is just I don't know (yet?) whether it was ⲕⲱϫⲓ or ϫⲱϫⲓ. Also, many Semitic feminine loanwords usually preserved their -t in Egyptian, because they were loaned when Egyptian already lost its feminine -t and so the Semitic words preserved their -t, because it was not lost a second time. Therefore, it could be even ⲕⲱϫⲧ or ϫⲱϫⲧ. ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ (talk) 16:37, 12 February 2018 (UTC)
Does other attested Greek name for Gaza Κάδυτις helps us here in any way? --ⲡⲁⲣⲇⲁ (talk) 13:55, 12 July 2018 (UTC)
I will have a look again on the etymology. Maybe a second view helps, and I will tell you my opinion tomorrow or overmorrow. ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ (talk) 23:14, 12 July 2018 (UTC)
Thank you, looking forward to it! --ⲡⲁⲣⲇⲁ (talk) 23:40, 12 July 2018 (UTC)

Good that I took a second look. So it turns out the underlying Hieroglyphic pronunciation was gaḏāti (instead of gaḏati, which changes the Coptic outcome). That means we would get a ⲕⲁϫⲱⲧ or ϫⲁϫⲱⲧ. Even better, Werner Vycichl explicitly reconstructs the form in his Dictionnaire Étymologique de la Langue Copte, and comes up with ⲕⲁϫⲱⲧ. So we're safe with ⲕⲁϫⲱⲧ. ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ (talk) 14:41, 13 July 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for your research! Let's use ⲕⲁϫⲱⲧ as a primary name, ⲙⲁϩⲙⲫⲱⲕ as a second name and ⲅⲁⲍⲁ as a historical/Hellenic name. ⲡⲁⲣⲇⲁ (talk) 01:01, 15 July 2018 (UTC)

Royal titles[edit]

In addition to discussion i've started in Wp/cop/ⲙⲟⲥⲭⲱ, what word should we use for Prince in sense of heir of the king and also in sense of title lower than the king? --Bloomaround (talk) 18:40, 16 January 2018 (UTC)

We can reconstruct the Demotic and Hieroglyphic word for 'prince' s3 nsw, which is also preserved in Greek sources as ⲥⲓⲟⲛⲥⲓⲟⲥ. The first syllable ('son') is also ⲥⲓ in Coptic (also in the construct state, which I think is irregular, but it is so widespread that there are no chances of errors in transmission or whatever). nsw is a bit more complicated, but researchers have agreed that it was ⲉⲛⲥ in Demotic and Coptic (in Demotic maybe with a shwa at the end), so we would have a ⲥⲓⲉⲛⲥ. In some instances, Greek ⲟ served to transcribe a sound which would be later a e sound in Coptic, i.e. Greek ⲥⲟⲛⲧⲏⲣ < nsw ntrw 'king of the gods', which would be in Bohairic probably ⲥⲉⲛⲑⲏⲣ (rather than ⲛⲥⲉⲛⲑⲏⲣ, because the n would have certainly be dropped). The Dictionnaire étymologique de la langue copte says to ⲥⲓⲟⲛⲥⲓⲟⲥ that the "egyptian form" is si-n-si, which would point to Coptic ⲥⲓⲛⲥ, but I somewhat doubt that because the vowel seems to be preserved in a couple of similar formations, like ϩⲱⲣⲥⲓⲏⲥⲓ and ⲥⲓⲟⲩⲥⲓⲣⲓ. Plus, we have a Greek ⲥⲓⲟⲛⲥⲓⲟⲥ, which also speaks against ⲥⲓⲛⲥ. So I would go for ⲥⲓⲉⲛⲥ 'prince'. ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ (talk) 20:47, 16 January 2018 (UTC)

Looks nice, let's use it --Bloomaround (talk) 01:44, 17 January 2018 (UTC)

Government terminology[edit]

What word should we use for mayor? And for the whole concept of "government"? Maybe just replace it with "state"?

Also i was about to write "clockwise" but realised i had no idea how to even say "clock". I guess we could create it using ⲱⲡ and ⲛⲁⲩ but i just can't put them together. Can somebody help? --Bloomaround (talk) 01:44, 17 January 2018 (UTC)
What about ϣⲉⲟⲩⲛⲟⲩ for 'clock'? From ϣⲓ 'measure' and ⲟⲩⲛⲟⲩ 'hour'. We can wait for other suggestions.
I will see what term for mayor we have in Demotic and Hieroglyphic, and will come up with some suggestions. ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ (talk) 15:34, 18 January 2018 (UTC)
So, for 'government' we could use ⲙⲉⲧϩⲱⲕ, from the above mentioned ϩⲱⲕ. For mayor, I found in Hieroglyphic rmṯ ˁ3 ('big man'), would yield ⲣⲁⲙⲟ - the problem is that ⲣⲁⲙⲁⲟ 'rich man' (originally 'big man') has the same etymology and maybe that is not good, but I could live with it.
The other word is ḥ3tj-ˁ, which would be ϩⲟⲩⲓⲧ. But ϩⲟⲩⲓⲧ is mostly used for 'first' (next to ϣⲟⲣⲡ) in Coptic. ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ (talk) 00:36, 19 January 2018 (UTC)
ⲣⲁⲙⲟ looks better and makes more sense to me. It also resonates with etymology of "mayor" used in the majority of European languages (which shouldn't be a big thing to us but anyway). Thank you! --Bloomaround (talk) 13:14, 19 January 2018 (UTC)
You're welcome. I will add them to the new words. And, in case it is a female mayor, it is ϯⲣⲁⲙⲱ with ⲱ. ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ (talk) 16:41, 19 January 2018 (UTC)
For "government" I've just come across the coined term ⲡⲓⲙⲁⲛⲉⲣϣⲓϣⲓ (ⲙⲁⲛ- + ⲉⲣϣⲓϣⲓ) on the model of ⲙⲁⲛⲉⲥⲱⲟⲩ "shepherd" etc in Ayoub Farag Ibrahim's book ⲡⲓⲛⲟⲩⲃ (Part IV, p. 9), which I think is rather good. - AB
Sounds good, I will add it. ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ (talk) 12:44, 28 February 2018 (UTC)

Hi all, do you know that there is a pretty detailed list of civil & military hierarchies, positions, weapons etc preserved in various Coptic scalae? The most comprehensive are:

I hope you find this helpful. - AB

ⲁϩⲏ, ϯϣⲉⲡϩⲙⲟⲧ :) ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ (talk) 20:09, 27 February 2018 (UTC)

الملكية[edit]

What word should we use for monarchy/kingship? In Hieroglyphic Egyptian, there is md.t nb wˁ which is ⲙⲉⲧⲛⲉⲃⲟⲩⲁⲓ in Coptic. From Greek, we would have ⲙⲟⲛⲁⲣⲭⲓⲁ. Traditionally, ⲙⲉⲧⲟⲩⲣⲟ is used for both kingdom and kingship, but I think a semantic distinction would be good. ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ (talk) 15:48, 27 February 2018 (UTC)

Both ⲙⲟⲛⲁⲣⲭⲓⲁ and ⲙⲉⲧⲛⲉⲃⲟⲩⲁⲓ is fine. I prefer Coptic neologisms, but as there are people here who prefer Greek, we could use both actually, depending on one's personal preference. Ϯⲙⲉⲗⲗⲓⲥⲏⲧ (talk) 16:53, 27 February 2018 (UTC)
I also prefer ⲙⲉⲧⲛⲉⲃⲟⲩⲁⲓ. Any input from someone else? If not, I will add it to the list of new words. ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ (talk) 20:09, 27 February 2018 (UTC)
As you know I don't like derived forms. I'm not sure if ⲙⲟⲛⲁⲣⲭⲓⲁ̀ is actually attested in Coptic but ⲃⲁⲥⲓⲗⲓⲁ̀ (and related forms) certainly are in Bohairic and Sahidic and would be my preferred choice as a counterpart to ⲙⲉⲧⲟⲩⲣⲟ. - AB
I also thought about ⲃⲁⲥⲓⲗⲉⲓⲁ, but it is not used as "monarchy", rather like ⲙⲉⲧⲟⲩⲣⲟ. So... Hmmm... What about we say that ⲙⲉⲧⲛⲉⲃⲟⲩⲁⲓ can be used by the people who are purists and the Greek word for the others? ⲙⲟⲛⲁⲣⲭⲓⲁ is unfortunately not attested in any text and dictionary I know, but it would match "monarchy" better. So I am still not sure what to do. ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ (talk) 23:28, 27 February 2018 (UTC)
Aren't both md.t nb wˁ and ⲙⲉⲧⲛⲉⲃⲟⲩⲁⲓ mean more like "aristocracy"? ⲥⲉⲣⲕⲓ (talk) 06:28, 27 April 2019 (UTC)
nb wˁ literally means "sole ruler", so ⲛⲉⲃⲟⲩⲁⲓ for ⲙⲟⲛⲁⲣⲭⲟⲥ and ⲙⲉⲧⲛⲉⲃⲟⲩⲁⲓ for ⲙⲟⲛⲁⲣⲭⲓⲁ would make more sense than 'aristocracy'? ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ (talk) 13:24, 27 April 2019 (UTC)
Oooh true, sorry i haven't recognize wˁ as "one". "Aristocracy" most likely would be ⲁⲛⲛⲏⲃ. ⲥⲉⲣⲕⲓ (talk) 08:24, 28 April 2019 (UTC)

Military terms[edit]

In Sahidic, we have the term ⲗⲉⲙⲏⲏϣⲉ 'capitain, warrior, champion', from Hieroglyphic ỉmỉ-rȝ mšˁ 'general'. This was, with article, also loaned into Meroitic plmos = pelamuša, pelamoša 'officer'. In Bohairic, the form would be ⲗⲁⲙⲏϣ. We could use it for "officer", in the sense of higher-ranking soldier. Ϯⲙⲉⲗⲗⲓⲥⲏⲧ (talk) 15:43, 8 August 2018 (UTC)

Yes, let's use it. I've been recently trying to make an article about Egyptian army and to come up with Coptic names for modern higher military insignia. All the Greek names are taken from Scalae and correlated with approximated number of soldiers under command.
  • Field Marshal - ⲣⲉϥⲥⲟϭⲛⲓ (مشير)
  • General - ⲥⲧⲣⲁⲧⲏⲅⲟⲥ/ⲥⲧⲣⲁⲧⲉⲗⲁⲧⲏⲥ (فريق أول)
  • Lieutenant General -
  • Major General -
  • Colonel - ⲁⲫⲉ ̀ⲛϫⲱⲧ (عقيد)
  • Brigadier - ⲭⲓⲗⲓⲁⲣⲭⲟⲥ (عميد)
  • Lieutenant colonel - ⲡⲉⲛⲧⲏⲕⲟⲛⲧⲁⲣⲭⲟⲥ (مقدم)
  • Captain/Major - ϩⲩⲕⲁⲧⲟⲛⲧⲁⲣⲭⲟⲥ (رائد, نقيب)
  • It's not full as you can see, so maybe you have any suggestions? --ⲡⲁⲣⲇⲁ (talk) 09:19, 9 August 2018 (UTC)
Let's take ⲥⲧⲣⲁⲧⲏⲧⲗⲁⲧⲏⲥ as general, because ⲥⲧⲣⲁⲧⲏⲅⲟⲥ is more a "commander" in a broader sense. As far as the writing is concerned, I would take ⲥⲧⲣⲁⲧⲏⲧⲗⲁⲧⲏⲥ, because it is the most common, although ⲥⲧⲣⲁϯⲗⲁⲧⲏⲥ, ⲥⲧⲣⲁⲧⲓⲗⲁⲧⲏⲥ, ⲥⲧⲣⲁϯⲏⲗⲁⲧⲏⲥ, ⲥⲧⲣⲁⲧⲉⲗⲁⲧⲏⲥ also show up. ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ (talk) 15:25, 10 August 2018 (UTC)

Vizier[edit]

What word should we take for vizier/viceroy? Maybe a reconstruction of Demotic ṯꜣty is possible? ⲡⲁⲣⲇⲁ (talk) 15:43, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

I would take ⲗⲁⲥⲁϧ because the distinction between minister and vizier is mostly done in non-Middle Eastern languages and somewhat artificial. (grandvizier would be just a prime minister; Angela Merkel as the chancellor of Germany would be literally adressed as "grand vizier of Germany" in, i.e., Urdu). Middle Eastern languages usually have one word for it: وزیر (which is also used to translate ⲗⲁⲥⲁϧ into Arabic). The same word gets translated into English as "vizier" when it is about traditional governance, and as "minister" when we talk about the modern contemporary countries. I looked into Demotic ṯꜣty. I couldn't find anything but I keep looking. ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ (talk) 00:39, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

Scientific/medical terminology[edit]

So there's a couple of terms i would like to discuss with you:

  • Evolution (i suppose we can't just use "growth", but i assume we could use "development" here, but i'm not common with the word with this meaning)
What about ⲙⲉⲧⲙⲟϣⲓ? ⲙⲉⲧ- is used to create abstract nouns, ⲙⲟϣⲓ means go. (ϫⲓⲛⲙⲟϣⲓ is used for gait, way of walking, even behavior) ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ (talk) 16:34, 12 February 2018 (UTC)
  • Metabolism (we could create the word using "material" and "exchange" as it's made in Armenian or German although i don't know the word for abstract "material" not meaning garment or woven material.)
ϩⲉⲃϣⲉⲃⲓⲱ maybe? ⲡⲁⲣⲇⲁ (talk) 01:04, 15 July 2018 (UTC)
  • Photosynthesis (should we just use Greek word as it's made in majority of languages or create a neologism?)
  • Virus (should we just use ⲃⲓⲣⲟⲩⲥ?)
True, it is widespread in many languages, including Arabic. The Greek word ⲓⲟⲥ we should rather use for Grünspangift (= Copper(II) acetate poison?), as it is used in SB Kopt. 006. Because the Latin ending -us shows up as -ⲟⲥ in Coptic, even in non-Greek words like ⲕⲁⲓⲥⲁⲣⲟⲥ (where the ending is actually unnecessary), it is more Coptic to write ⲃⲓⲣⲟⲥ, though. ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ (talk) 16:34, 12 February 2018 (UTC)
  • AIDS
ⲉⲓⲧⲥ (ϣⲱⲛⲓ ̀ⲛⲉⲓⲧⲥ, ϣⲉⲛⲉⲓⲧⲥ)? ⲡⲁⲣⲇⲁ (talk) 01:04, 15 July 2018 (UTC)

--Bloomaround (talk) 00:38, 12 February 2018 (UTC)

ϩⲁⲛⲥⲁϫⲓ `ⲛϯⲙⲉⲧⲥⲁⲟⲩⲛⲃⲱⲗ[edit]

As we are talking about scientific terminology, here are some for chemistry and related areas.

I thought about ϯⲙⲉⲧⲥⲁⲟⲩⲛⲃⲱⲗ for chemistry (see above). But if you come up with better words, please write it here.
I will add words we can use for several chemistry-related things which I found in an article about (Arabic) alchemy in Coptic. As you will see, many of the words come from Arabic and Greek, even though in some cases we have a native Coptic word. In a few cases, there is an Arabic, a Coptic and a Greek word available. Some of the below words come from a Sahidic text (from "The Master spoke: Take one of the "Sun", and One Unit of Almulgam." Hitherto Unnoticed Coptic Papyrological Evidence of Early Arabic Alchemy., from Tonio Sebastian Richter), so I will change the orthography into Bohairic. ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ (talk) 17:02, 12 February 2018 (UTC)
  • ⲁⲗⲕⲁⲗⲁⲕⲁⲛⲑ: (green) vitirol, Cu-vitriol
  • ⲁⲗⲙⲁⲣⲑⲁⲕ: litharge
  • ⲁⲗⲭⲓⲡⲣⲓⲧ: sulphur
  • ⲁⲛⲛⲟⲩϣⲁⲧⲉⲣ: salmoniac
  • ⲁⲥⲥⲉⲣⲛⲏϧ (Sahidic ⲁⲥⲥⲉⲣⲛⲏϩ): arsenic (from الزرنيخ, so obviously in Bohairic with ϧ)
  • ⲁⲥⲥⲓⲡⲁⲕ: quicksilver
  • ⲑⲏⲛ: sulphur (from greek theion?)
  • ⲑⲣⲓⲙ: quicksilver (native?)
  • ⲓⲟⲥ: Copper(II) acetate poison
Some possible additions:
  • ϯⲙⲟϥⲕ: turquoise
  • ϣⲟⲩⲕⲣⲓ: amber (not related to chemistry but anyway) ⲥⲉⲣⲕⲓ (talk) 11:48, 10 April 2019 (UTC)

Profane words[edit]

We should make a difference between ⲃⲁϩ 'penis' (it is preserved in Sahidic, but it would sound the same in Bohairic, given its Hieroglyphic pronunciation *ba3īḥ), which can be used in a normal context and ⲥⲏⲧ 'dick, cock', which is more for the usage among friends ...lol. In case you need that word :)) ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ (talk) 17:48, 12 February 2018 (UTC)

Transportation[edit]

What words should we use for different types of roads, highways, autobans etc? Also for airports/railroads. My suggestion for the latter two are ϯⲁⲏⲣⲙⲣⲱ and ⲡⲓⲙⲱⲓⲧ `ⲙⲃⲉⲛⲓⲡⲓ. But i think that it should involve discussion anyway, especially about "highway" – should we just take a loanword like French ϣⲟⲥⲥⲉ or coin a new word? --ⲡⲁⲣⲇⲁ (talk) 08:32, 1 May 2018 (UTC)

What kind of compound is ⲁⲏⲣⲙⲣⲱ? I think I would go for ⲡⲓⲙⲱⲓⲧ `ⲙⲃⲉⲛⲓⲡⲓ. I would only use French words if they are also present in (Egyptian) Arabic, and chausee is not common. I think we can use the same Coptic word for highway and autobahn? There are two common words for road, street, path in Coptic, ϧⲓⲣ and ⲙⲱⲓⲧ. What if we create a noun "big street" for avenue (with the adjective ⲟ, which is only used in compounds in Coptic and is thus suitable for creating new compounds) and "car street" for highway? In that case, we would need a word for car (should we take ⲃⲉⲣⲉϭⲱⲟⲩⲧⲥ?). ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ (talk) 15:39, 1 May 2018 (UTC)
Sorry, there's a typo. It's ⲁⲏⲣⲉⲙⲣⲱ for airport – ⲁⲏⲣ (air) + ⲉⲙⲣⲱ (port). The idea with "car street" looks good to me. Should we take ⲡⲓⲙⲱⲓⲧ `ⲙⲃⲉⲣⲉϭⲱⲟⲩⲧⲥ then (cause ⲃⲉⲣⲉϭⲱⲟⲩⲧⲥ seems like a common word for a modern car) --ⲡⲁⲣⲇⲁ (talk) 18:37, 1 May 2018 (UTC)
Ah yeah I see now. For airport, I would suggest "place of flying/flight", this is more comprehensible for Copts, also the Arabic word means "place of flying". (A literal translation from English would rather be ⲉⲙⲣⲱ `ⲛⲁⲏⲣ )

So, "place of flying" is ⲙⲁⲛϩⲱⲗ or ⲙⲁⲛϩⲁⲗⲁⲓ, depending on which word we wanna use for flying.

And ⲡⲓⲙⲱⲓⲧ `ⲙⲃⲉⲣⲉϭⲱⲟⲩⲧⲥ looks good. ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ (talk) 20:10, 2 May 2018 (UTC)

ⲙⲁⲛϩⲁⲗⲁⲓ is better i think cause ⲙⲁⲛϩⲱⲗ also means "exit". ⲥⲉⲣⲕⲓ (talk) 18:20, 21 January 2019 (UTC)

Art and poetry[edit]

I was about to start writing an article about Hugo, but then decided to discuss new words here first. What words should we use for:

  • Poet (ⲡⲟⲓⲏⲧⲏⲥ?) and poetry
  • Playwright (ⲇⲣⲁⲙⲁⲧⲟⲩⲣⲅⲟⲥ?) and play
  • Novelist (ⲡⲓⲥⲁϦ/ϯⲥⲁϦ?) and novel

--ⲡⲁⲣⲇⲁ (talk) 21:30, 6 May 2018 (UTC)

ⲛⲟϥⲣⲓ ⲡⲁⲣⲇⲁ!
For "poet", I think we could take the Greek word. As far as I know, there are no explicit terms for poet, poetry in Egyptian. At least I haven't found any words. If "poet" is ⲡⲟⲓⲏⲧⲏⲥ, we have two options for "poetry": ⲡⲟⲓⲏⲥⲏ and ⲙⲉⲧⲡⲟⲓⲏⲧⲏⲥ. For "poem", we could use ⲡⲟⲓⲏⲙⲁ.
I will look for Coptic expressions for the other words, although it seems legitimate to take over Greek expressions. For novel, we could just take a Coptic word for "story", like Arabic does it.

However, it seems not too difficult to come up with a genuine Coptic word for "play". ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ (talk) 19:30, 10 May 2018 (UTC)

And what do you think about taking ⲣⲉϥⲉⲣⲣⲱⲙⲓ for "character" and "person, individual" in general (we could also use ⲙⲉⲧⲉⲣⲣⲱⲙⲓ for "personality" then)? --ⲡⲁⲣⲇⲁ (talk) 12:29, 7 August 2018 (UTC)
The meaning of ⲙⲉⲧⲉⲣⲣⲱⲙⲓ would rather be 'puberty', I guess. Unfortunately, there is no clear distinction between man and human. Etymologically, it would make sense to use ⲥⲁ for man, and ⲣⲱⲙⲓ for human/person. When it comes to "character" in a story, we could do it similar to Hebrew. They took an old word for 'image, picture, likeness' and added the meaning "character". For instance, we have the word ⲑⲟⲩⲱⲧ, meaning 'idol' and (via 'statue') 'pillar'. we could use it for 'character' too. The origin sense of the word was 'picture, likeness' anyway (as reflected in the name of Tutankhamun - living image of Amun), thus very close to the word many languages use for 'character'. Or we could use the Greek term ⲭⲁⲣⲁⲕⲧⲏⲣ, as the word is also used in Arabic (although only colloquially and not widespreadly). ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ (talk) 16:41, 7 August 2018 (UTC)
Yeah, you're right. Let's use ⲑⲟⲩⲱⲧ and ⲭⲁⲣⲁⲕⲧⲏⲣ then. ⲡⲁⲣⲇⲁ (talk) 08:30, 11 August 2018 (UTC)

What word should we use for "design"? ⲙⲉⲧⲧⲁⲃⲧⲉⲃ/ϫⲓⲛⲧⲁⲃⲧⲉⲃ maybe? ⲡⲁⲣⲇⲁ (talk) 08:30, 11 August 2018 (UTC)

ⲙⲉⲧⲧⲁⲃⲧⲉⲃ looks good! ⲙⲉⲧ- is for abstract nouns and thus I would prefer it in this case. Ϯⲙⲉⲗⲗⲓⲥⲏⲧ (talk) 16:19, 11 August 2018 (UTC)

Colors[edit]

What words should be use for different colors?

  • Red – ⲑⲱⲣϣ
  • Green - ⲟⲩⲱⲧ (ⲟⲩⲧⲟⲩⲉⲧ, ⲃⲟⲧⲃⲉⲧ)
  • Yellow - this is the most complicated one. There was no real distinction between red and yellow in Egyptian as far as i know, so we have to come up with new word or meaning. (ⲙⲣⲱϣ maybe?)
Well, ⲙⲏⲣϣ seems to be more often used for 'red(dish)' than 'yellow', but I mean we could start to use it for yellow only. The only other option we have is taking it from Ancient Greek. ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ (talk) 22:43, 10 July 2018 (UTC)
  • Blue - the same as with yellow, but there's a word attested "lapis-lazuli coloumred, blue" – ḫsbč̣(and even another one – čfrr). I have no idea if it's possible to render it in Coptic though.
In Coptic Old Testament ϩⲩⲁⲕⲓⲛⲑⲓⲛⲟⲛ is used for "blue" --ⲡⲁⲣⲇⲁ (talk)

01:38, 5 July 2018 (UTC)

I tried to reconstruct the Coptic outcome of the hieroglyphic words for 'blue', it is impossible because the hieroglyphic pronunciation is not known either.
Several Greek words are employed for 'blue', most prominently ⲁⲉⲣⲓⲛⲟⲥ (in all three occasions written ⲁⲏⲣ-) and as you said ϩⲩⲁⲕⲓⲛⲑⲓⲛⲟⲥ. They are both not perfect, because the first one means 'cerulean' and the other is just an adjective to hyacinth, but so it goes. We have to deal with it, a lot of languages have surprisingly big problems with coming up with genuine color names. ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ (talk) 22:43, 10 July 2018 (UTC)
There's ⲁⲥⲟⲩⲗⲓ for "blue" in Labib's "ⲛⲓϫⲱⲙ `ⲛⲧⲉ ⲡⲓⲁϧⲱⲙⲫⲁⲧ ⲉⲡϫⲓⲛϯⲥⲃⲱ `ⲛϯⲁⲥⲡⲓ `ⲛⲣⲉⲙⲛⲭⲏⲙⲓ" but i have no idea where it comes from.
There's also:
  • ⲛⲏϫⲓ for "green"
  • ⲁⲟⲩⲓⲛ for "yellow"
  • ⲓⲁⲛ for "purple"
I don't know where these come from as well. ⲥⲉⲣⲕⲓ (talk) 08:14, 29 October 2018 (UTC)
  • White - ⲟⲩⲱⲃϣ (ⲟⲩⲃⲁϣ)
  • Black - ⲭⲁⲙⲉ

Also there are colours like brown, grey, pink, purple etc. But i think we have to deal with major ones first. --ⲡⲁⲣⲇⲁ (talk) 00:26, 1 June 2018 (UTC)

Translatewiki.net[edit]

Can we collect here the words we come up with or create for translatewiki?

I used for the translations I made today:

  • ⲥⲁϫⲓ ⲉⲧⲭⲏⲡ for password
  • ⲣⲉϥⲉⲣⲭⲣⲁⲥⲑⲉ for user
  • ⲣⲁⲛ `ⲛⲣⲉϥⲉⲣⲭⲣⲁⲥⲑⲉ for username
  • ϣⲱϣⲓ for category (Literally, it means "field" and comes from Hieroglyphic sḫ.t and does not exist in Bohairic, but in most other dialects of Coptic. As the semantic development for "field (meadow)" to "academic field/area/category" is not far-fetched, I think it is a very good use of this word. I didnt want to use the actually attested Bohairic words for "field", because I think we can leave them in their sense of the literal field, meadow etc.)
That's actually very nice. --ⲡⲁⲣⲇⲁ (talk) 20:56, 6 August 2018 (UTC)

ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ (talk) 17:59, 6 August 2018 (UTC)

Thanks! In case you wonder why I came up with ϣⲱϣⲓ, and not ⲥⲱϣⲓ or ⲥⲱϧⲓ: In many environments, old ḫ develops into ϣ in all dialects except for the most conservative (most prominently Akhmimic, but also pre-Sahidic local Theban dialect). In Bohairic and Fayyumic, if s is in the same word as ϣ, it gets assimilated to ϣ. Thats why we have Bohairic ϣⲁϣϥ, Fayyumic ϣⲉϣⲃ '7', but Sahidic ⲥⲁϣϥ. Akhmimic preserved an old ⲥⲁⳉϥ (ⳉ is equal to Bohairic ϧ; all from *safḫaw). Similar is our case of 'field', where Sahidic has ⲥⲱϣⲉ, Fayyumic has ϣⲱϣⲓ (which is also exactly the form we would expect in Bohairic). Some (very few) Sahidic texts also have ⲥⲱϩⲉ, which is an influence from a local Upper Egyptian dialect with a conservative phonology. In Akhmimic, the word would be ⲥⲱⳉⲉ, as Sahidic doesnt have the sound x, only h, such a local word would be written ⲥⲱϩⲉ in Sahidic. Btw, on the other hand, the assimilation of s to ϣ when the other consonant is ϫ, happens in Sahidic and Fayyumic, but not in Bohairic and Akhmimic: Thus ϣⲁϫⲉ (Sahidic), ϣⲉϫⲓ (Fayyumic), but ⲥⲉϫⲉ (Akhmimic and Subakhmimic/Lycopolitan) and ⲥⲁϫⲓ (Bohairic). ⲉ is the "older" vowel, Sahidic and Bohairic have ⲁ. ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ (talk) 21:51, 6 August 2018 (UTC)
I have previously used:
  • ⲙⲉⲧⲭⲱⲡ for privacy
  • ϫⲓⲛⲱⲧⲟ for preference (ⲱⲧⲟ ("prefer") is from Siowtic dialect, but not attested in Bohairic (no changes in word needed i guess). --ⲡⲁⲣⲇⲁ (talk) 20:56, 6 August 2018 (UTC)
Do you know the etymology of ⲱⲧⲟ by any chance? So we could make sure it would be the same in Bohairic. If ⲱⲧⲟ is not some "aberrant" Akhmimic spelling, than I guess ⲱ would stay the same in Bohairic, as should ⲟ. If the word is stressed on the first syllable, it could indeed look exactly the same. But I don't wanna give a final answer without an etymology. ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ (talk) 21:51, 6 August 2018 (UTC)
I couldn't find etymology for ⲱⲧⲟ yet, but there's also Demotic word "ḫn" with the same meaning. --ⲡⲁⲣⲇⲁ (talk) 09:57, 8 August 2018 (UTC)
Some additions for everyone to discuss:
  • ⲁⲗⲓⲧⲥⲁϫⲓ for "citation" or "quote"
  • ⲙⲉⲧⲥⲁϫⲓ for "text"
  • ϫⲓⲛⲉⲣϭⲓⲏ for "term"
  • ⲁⲣⲣⲱⲕⲥⲉ for "license" (couldn't come up with a native word so i decided to take Arabic one, mostly because legal field was the one where Coptic mostly borrowed Arabic words from)
  • ϣⲉⲣⲡⲛⲁⲩ for "preview"

ⲥⲉⲣⲕⲓ (talk) 01:02, 9 January 2019 (UTC)

Greetings[edit]

Many use ⲛⲟϥⲣⲓ for 'Hallo', but in Demotic the word for it was apparently ɜw.ṱ=k, which is ⲉⲟⲩⲱⲧⲕ in Coptic. It actually exists as ⲉⲟⲩⲱⲧϥ ⲟⲩⲥⲓⲣⲉ in an Old Coptic text meaning 'Hail Osiris'. So I thought we could take ⲉⲟⲩⲱⲧⲕ. For 'Goodbye', there is Ḥr sw=k = ϩⲱⲣ ⲥⲟⲩⲕ (literally Horus [be] your protection). Christians and Muslims may say ⲫⲛⲟⲩϯ ⲥⲟⲩⲕ instead. And 'ey, hey, yo' is attested as ϩⲁⲓ, ϩⲁⲓⲟ in Coptic. Ϯⲙⲉⲗⲗⲓⲥⲏⲧ (talk) 16:18, 8 August 2018 (UTC)

Very nice. And finally, we have a good phrase for "Bye". ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ (talk) 15:26, 10 August 2018 (UTC)

Categories of time[edit]

Hello everyone. Does anybody know if Coptic has genuine words for categories as "past", "future" etc? --ⲡⲁⲣⲇⲁ (talk) 16:07, 20 August 2018 (UTC)

Ok, so i've found these terms in Sahidic New Testament – "present" is "ⲉⲧϣⲟⲟⲡ" (ⲉⲧϣⲱⲡ in Bohairic), future is "ⲉⲧⲛⲁϣⲱⲡⲉ" (ⲉⲧⲛⲁϣⲱⲡⲓ in Bohairic i suppose) and past is ⲡⲉⲟⲩⲟⲉⲓϣ ⲛⲧⲁϥⲟⲩⲉⲓⲛⲉ (ⲡⲓⲥⲏⲟⲩ ⲉⲧⲁϥⲥⲓⲛⲓ in Bohairic i also suppose or maybe we could even shorten it to just ⲉⲧⲁϥⲥⲓⲛⲓ?) ⲡⲁⲣⲇⲁ (talk) 00:43, 4 September 2018 (UTC)

"Half-" as in half-brother and peninsula[edit]

Would it be OK if we use ϫⲉⲥ- instead of ⲫⲁϣ-? So ϫⲉⲥⲙⲟⲩⲓ for peninsula for instance? Also, I'm not sure if we should translate "half-brother" literally. It seems to be a Western European expression which sounds unfamiliar to Egyptian ears. But please let's have a discussion about that too but if we don't come up with something better I guess we could introduce it into Coptic.

So, as far as ⲫⲁϣ- is concerned, it has also the sense of "divided" or "dividing" and whereas ϫⲉⲥ- is exclusively "half". But more importantly, it is mostly ϫⲉⲥ- which is traditionally used in these "half-, semi-" constructions. ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ (talk) 21:16, 19 September 2018 (UTC)

You're right, ϫⲉⲥ- is better then ⲫⲁϣ- in these cases. As for "half-brother", i understand you, it sounds weird to Russian ear as well, if you think about it. In Russian we have different words for maternal and paternal siblings (would be literally "womb brother" and "blood brother"). I don't know about Arabic synonyms for these, but maybe we should stick to them. ⲥⲉⲣⲕⲓ (talk) 23:10, 19 September 2018 (UTC)
Oh, I just remembered that Coptic actually has the terms ϣⲉⲛⲓⲱⲧ and ϣⲉⲛⲙⲁⲩ, literally meaning 'son (or actually also daughter) of the father' and 'son (daughter) of the mother', respectively. So what is implied here is that one shares the same father or mother with somebody. (Also recorded in Crum's Coptic dictionary). In my understanding, this refers to half-brother/sister. The only problem we would have here that Coptic doesn't distinguish the gender of the half-sibling, but the parent the have in common. ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ (talk) 23:37, 19 September 2018 (UTC)
Can I change it? ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ (talk) 12:47, 20 September 2018 (UTC)
Yes, of course. ϣⲉⲛⲓⲱⲧ and ϣⲉⲛⲙⲁⲩ are much better too. ⲥⲉⲣⲕⲓ (talk) 14:28, 20 September 2018 (UTC)

Rights and rules[edit]

In Demotic these two words have a similar structure – tp-nfr for right (like in human's rights) and tp-rd for rule (as game rules). Two second parts are obvious (ⲛⲟϥⲣⲓ and ⲣⲏϯ). The first part means "upon" and is attested in Oxyrhynchite dialect as ⲧⲃⲁⲓ- (in ⲧⲃⲁⲓⲧⲱⲟⲩ, epithet of Anubis). I'm not good in dialects but wouldn't it be something like ⲧⲃⲟⲓ- in Bohairic (so ⲧⲃⲟⲓⲛⲟϥⲣⲓ/ⲧⲃⲟⲛⲟⲩϥⲓ and ⲧⲃⲟⲓⲣⲏϯ)? ⲥⲉⲣⲕⲓ (talk) 22:41, 3 October 2018 (UTC)

tp as an unstressed compound would most likely be ⲧⲃ-, the diphtong is from tp-y. I'm not sure, however, how it would work out in the word tp-nfr. The more common words in Demotic for right, but also rule and justice are hp (ϩⲁⲡ) and m3'(.t) (ⲙⲏⲓ), both of which also have other meanings. Greek ⲇⲓⲕⲁⲓⲱⲙⲁ is also used for "right" but I guess you're looking for a genuine Egyptian word. The problem is, if I'm not pretty sure that I can reconstruct the word I tend to rather not use it because I dont wanna introduce false words. ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ (talk) 00:58, 4 October 2018 (UTC)
You're right, we shouldn't introduce false words for sure. The problem with ϩⲁⲡ is that it's rather "legal law" equal to greek ⲛⲟⲙⲟⲥ, and ⲙⲏⲓ is more like "truth, justice". As you said, i was thinking more about equivalent of ⲇⲓⲕⲁⲓⲱⲙⲁ. What if we take the same words i've mentioned above but construct them anew with words attested in Bohairic (like ϩⲓϫⲉⲛ)? ⲥⲉⲣⲕⲓ (talk) 22:44, 5 October 2018 (UTC)
But is it certain that in these cases we deal with tp in the sense of "upon"? It could also be tp in the sense of "first; choice; beginning". ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ (talk) 04:12, 7 October 2018 (UTC)
Now when i think of it it actually makes more sense with "first; choice; beginning" meanings. As for tp-nfr as "first goods" in sense of "essential" and for tp-rd as "chosen way" cause rule is literally a regulated way we choose to do something. ⲥⲉⲣⲕⲓ (talk) 00:21, 8 November 2018 (UTC)

Re- as in rebuild or reform[edit]

What should we use for creating forms like that? I thought about ⲟⲛ- and even used it a few times but now it doesn't look right to me at all. Maybe somebody knows more legit way to render this re- in Egyptian? ⲥⲉⲣⲕⲓ (talk) 00:13, 8 November 2018 (UTC)

It would definitely be a neologism for Coptic, but it seems we need to create one if we don't want to use foreign material. On the other hand, Arabic doesnt have such a prefix either and renders these nouns differently , case by case, i.e. with "second", or "again". We could use ⲟⲛ in the same way, but not as a prefix. If we say that ⲟⲛ is used as a prefix, and if it would be unstressed, it would turn to ⲁⲛ- (which would coincidentally look like the Greek prefix for re-). However, it seems the re-prefix is also stressed in English and other languages, which speaks for ⲟⲛ- (although two stressed compounds, prefix and base word, is really really weird in Coptic). Ϯⲙⲉⲗⲗⲓⲥⲏⲧ (talk) 15:08, 14 November 2018 (UTC)