User talk:Hgav

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-- Welcoming Bot 15:57, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

Template in LAD

Hi Hgav,

I've been wanting to write to you for a while now, however I couldn't because of the busy hectic real world. First of all, I've been wanting to tell you thank you for participating the project and thanks for your contributions.

About those language templates, I'd been willing to remove them for a long time now, it had honestly nothing to do with your participation. I'd created some of them, taking example from the Spanish Wiktionary, however the English Wiktionary do not make use of them...and if I'm not mistaken more & more Wiktionary projects are taking example of the English Wiktionary. The English Wikt. uses only ==French== when creating an entry in French, however just below it uses another simple template, that allows to add automatically categories such as Frech nouns. This way, it becomes easier and less bulkier for the Wiktionary. I've been planning to ask some help, from people with good template knowledge from the English Wiktionary to come down here and help with creating proper templates. In no way, I didn't mean to undermine your work. On the contrary, I'm really happy you're here, if we cooperate, we could build this wiktiobary much faster.

About the spelling, there are some misconception rooming around the world. Judaeo-Spanish doesn't have 2 ways of spelling Latin orthography (without c, q, ll and ñ) and a Hebrew orthography. This is simply not true. The original orthography of JS is Rashí and its cursive form Soletreo used in handwriting. However today, there are around 17 different orthographies in use, 12 of them being different Latin orthographies and the others being; Merubbá (square Hebrew letters), Rashí/Soletreo, Cyrillic, Greek and Arabic. Not all of them are widely used, however 6 of them are of great importance (not counting Rashí, because due to technical reasons, it can't be written yet). These are: French orthography (Vidas Largas), Turkish orthography, Aki Yerushalayim orthography (simplest Hebrew transcription system), Multidialectal orthography, Old Spanish orthography and Hebrew orthography.

In Ladino Wikipedia and the interface messages, mainly the multidialectal orthography is used. The main reason is that, in any other orthography any slightest difference in pronunciation of the different communities is reflected in writing. However in multidialectal o. (MO), for example, fuente and huente is written the same.."fuente"; given with 4 pronunciations according to the dialect: /fu'ente/, /xu'ente/, /fu'enti/ and /hu'enti/...and thus we know the rules, this happens all the time with f-, following "ue". Another reason is that, there are phonemic or phonological differences of the same dialect, that Aki Yerushalayim (AY) orthography doesn't make any distinction. In MO, vida means "life" and vidda means "screw", (the "dd" is an occlusive d) they are pronounced differently, in AY you would write both as vida.

However as this is a Wiktionary, it is all inclusive by nature, so both in Ladino Wikipedia and in the English Wikt., it has been decided to make entries using all of the major orthographies, not just one. So, the MO orthography is the main (all of the interface translations are being made in it). And we can add other orthographies as "ortoǵrafía alternativa" or as "ortoǵrafía AY" or simply as "forma alternativa de"...

About the c/k problem, as about any other problem, the MO looks to take a middle and neutral position. The AY, uses exclusively the letter K and the other Iberic orthographies uses exclusively C/QU. MO uses both proportionately, also solving the problem of vowel harmony problems and occlusive "d" and "g" problems, as well as help disambiguate homophones. In MO:

• que ≠ qué ≠ ké (que: that, qué: what, ké: dock < Fr. quais) ~ All of that is spelled as "ke" in AY.
• carar ≠ karar (carar: amount, karar: decision) ~ Both spelled as "karar" in AY.

The Multidialectal Orthography writes kebab, because it's pronounced as /ke'bab/ in Turkish JS; as /kje'bab/ (kyebab) in Greek JS and as /t͡ʃe'bab/ (chebab) Yugoslavian JS. If it wrote quebab it would be pronounced the same (/ke'bab/) everywhere. This is something you can't achieve with a shallow (purely phonographical) orthography...Same thing goes for kemán (violin), Kemal (a first name), kemer (arch), kenar (edge) and many more...

I could give other examples, however for now I think just suffice to say, "c" is used in words where the phonological rules corresponds with those of Old Iberic languages and "k" is used otherwise. To put in simpler terms, all the Iberic Latinic words that came to us from Old Spanish, Old Aragonese, Old Catalan etc. are spelled with "c". And words from all the other languages such as Hebrew, Turkish, Arabic, French, even modern Spanish are spelled with "k". There are few exceptions as well (such as "carar" < cadhar < kaddar < Tr. kadar).

I spell Castiliano with a "C", because of this. Apart from this, the spelling Kastilyano could be given as the AY orthography of Castiliano. However, for now I believe we should continue using the spelling Castiliano (and also Judeo-Español; in Aki Yerushalayim spelling it would be Djudeo-Espanyol and in French spelling, Djudeo-Espagnol). Sorry for the wall of texts. I really hope, we could cooperate from now on and do things together. I've other things to tell you as well, but I'll keep it for another time.

Take care,

Friendly, --Universal Life (talk) 08:28, 4 February 2014 (UTC)