User talk:AristippusSer

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Latest comment: 2 years ago by AristippusSer in topic Chinese names

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Voting[edit source]

Χαῖρε! It would be cool if you could vote here so that we can finally come to a solution that has plagued us for a long time. Εὐχαριστῶ! PastelKos (talk) 17:11, 14 September 2020 (UTC)Reply

Χάριν ἔχω σοι[edit source]

Χαῖρε Ἀρίστιππε! Βούλομαί σοι λέγιν ὡς χάριν ἔχω σοι ἐπὶ τῶν σῶν μεταγγραφῶν. Ἐὰν οὕτω διατελῇς, ἀγαθὸν ἄν ἐστί σοι γέρων γίγνεσθαι. --PastelKos (talk) 16:17, 29 August 2021 (UTC)Reply

Categories[edit source]

@AristippusSer: please never again make such drastic changes to the way categories are arranged before first consulting me. I'm currently having to undo your work which is something I shouldn't have to do. Also, we don't have the {{lang|language code|Lore Ipsum}} template in the Ancient Greek wiki so please do not use it since it just adds red links. I really appreciate your work here and I could never thank you enough for your contributions, just please leave the category thing to me. Thank you very much! --PastelKos (talk) 12:31, 3 September 2021 (UTC)Reply

@PastelKos: Hi PastelKos, thank you for the feedback. I thought that the category names with gentile adjectives made more sense, but in the future I'll let you know before making major changes to categories &c.
Sorry also for not getting back to you about the offer to become γέρων. I gave it some thought, but given the WMF bureaucracy has prevented ancient Greek from getting a Wikipedia and probably not for some time, and we have a relatively small community, I'd like to focus more on just writing articles for now. Maybe in the future if we do get a proper Wikipedia and have a bigger community, we can discuss more on how administration can be handled. AristippusSer (talk) 16:19, 3 September 2021 (UTC)Reply
@AristippusSer:, 'tis okay my friend. Even having you as an article writer is a privelege. I hope one day we'll actually get our very own wikipedia! --PastelKos (talk) 16:27, 3 September 2021 (UTC)Reply

[v][edit source]

@AristippusSer: The transliteration of [v] in Ancient Greek has been a long debated subject in this wiki. I thik though that intervocalically, [v] is best transcribed with β instead of ου. Ὀουίδιος is a bit ugly :P --PastelKos (talk) 02:07, 12 September 2021 (UTC)Reply

@PastelKos: I agree this (and other naming issues) can be open for debate when we get a bit more traffic, but I did find a source for ΟΟΥΙΔΙΟΣ and used it for consistency's sake, since elsewhere we usually use ΟΥ here. Also fwiw, I think the classical Latin pronunciation of V was [w] even intervocally. AristippusSer (talk) 02:25, 12 September 2021 (UTC)Reply
@AristippusSer: It was indeed pronounced intervocalically thus, but yet the source you find is not a primary one, it just states "which in greek is written in this manner". I tried to find a primary source but, alas, there's not one. I think, in this case, it be best to leave it at Ὀβίδιος and if we find a primary source, we'll change it to Ὀουίδιος. What do you think? --PastelKos (talk) 02:34, 12 September 2021 (UTC)Reply
OK, I looked it up and unfortunately cannot find any classical Greek work that mentions Ovid. The earliest I can find is Planoudes' translation, which is in the 13th century and already uses ΟΒΙΔΙΟΣ. I guess we should use this for the main title, mentioning ΟΟΥΙΔΙΟΣ as an alternative. AristippusSer (talk) 03:16, 12 September 2021 (UTC)Reply
There are also combinations like «αου», «εου», etc, as in «Ὀκταουιανός». But [ov] and [uv] can also be translated as «ου» as in «Οὐαρσουία». «Οὐαρσοουία» would sound strange to me.

Chinese names[edit source]

Hey @AristippusSer:! Great contributions to the wiki. What do you think of hellenizing chinese names of people and places even when there isn't a latinised one from which to derive one? For example Mao Zedong becoming Μάος Ζεδόγκος? I mean, we already hellenise so many other names in this wiki, why not chinese ones? If you do not second this proposal, I think we can both agree that τσ should not be used anywhere since it isn't native to ancient greek. --PastelKos (talk) 19:51, 21 September 2021 (UTC)Reply

My own feeling is that we shouldn't add Greek endings to last names anyway (same practice as on Latin Wikipedia) and just leave them indeclinable, unless there is a Greek or Latin version available in a primary source. Plato, for example, also used foreign names like Θεῦθ without feeling the need to Hellenize them.
But in any case, I agree with you on τσ and we can harmonize those where possible, so we can use Μάο Ζὲ-τούγγ. AristippusSer (talk) 20:02, 21 September 2021 (UTC)Reply
Ok then, I agreee that τσ in chinese names is best transcribed as a ζ (when transliterated as zh) but we should write it as κ when written as ch. Also, i checked the latin wiki and there it declines Mao as a thrid declension name Mao-nis. So we should rename it to Μάων Ζὲ-τούγγ. Also, I saw you using τούγγ instead of δόγγ. Does that mean we'll be using the Wade-Giles transliteraation system?
At any case, I agree with the non hellenisation of some last names (at least the ones you get your hands on first :P), however I think placenames should always be hellenised as done for the other countries around the world. Also, please use {{ping}} when messaging me cause otherwise I don't get a notification :) --PastelKos (talk) 19:02, 22 September 2021 (UTC)Reply
@PastelKos: Right, in any case I think we can defer this conversation until (if, hopefully) we get a proper project. Then we can have a discussion with more people participating and write some actual guidelines for the sake of consistency.
But for now, just to explain, I thought I'd use Τ instead of Δ because it's closer to the Mandarin phonology (which has a [t]). Although that leaves the question whether we should use Θ for pinyin t, which is more accurate according to the classical pronunciation but wrong in modern Greek. I don't have an opinion on this yet; we can deal with it when we come to it.
Finally, I am strongly against Μάων because it adds a nonexistent nasal ending to the stem; one would then expect, for example, *Μαωνϊσμός instead of Μαοϊσμός. I'd probably go and change that on the Vicipaedia. In any case this poses less of a problem for us than for them: they will have to rewrite sentences to avoid the oblique cases, whereas we can just write τῷ Μάο without a problem. AristippusSer (talk) 20:19, 22 September 2021 (UTC)Reply
Usually, the hellenisation of a name is based on writing and not on pronunciation (Νεύτων instead of Νιούτων). So we should pick either Pinyin or Wide-Giles for the transliteration and then transcribe it from there. I lean on the Pinyin system, but since it is you who will be occupied with chinese themes, I want your opinion.
Also I agree with you that Μάων is unacceptable, so maybe - since political systems ending in -ισμός come from nouns ending in -ος (usually; e.g. Βενιζελισμός < Βενιζέλος), we should hellenise the name is Μάος. What do you think?
Also, unfortunately, I won't be able to contribute much to the wiki this year due to my taking of national exams but I'll surely be around :) --PastelKos (talk) 14:55, 23 September 2021 (UTC)Reply
@PastelKos: I still don't support Μάος because that theoretically gives *Μαϊσμός. Like I said, I prefer to not Hellenize unless I can find a source outside Wikipedia; part of the problem that stopped us from being approved by the language committee is that they think we invent too much. And I still think it's best to leave this conversation until we have a proper project and more contributors to set some consistent rules. But in any case, good luck with your national exams! AristippusSer (talk) 20:02, 25 September 2021 (UTC)Reply