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Talk:Wp/cop/ⲡⲁⲛⲟⲩϥⲓ (ⲑⲱϣ)

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Latest comment: 3 years ago by Ⲫⲁϯⲟⲩⲉⲣϣⲓ in topic ϯϩⲛⲟⲩⲛⲧⲙⲏ `ⲛⲑⲱϣ

ϯϩⲛⲟⲩⲛⲧⲙⲏ `ⲛⲑⲱϣ[edit source]

Could someone who is a native Arabic speaker explain where the name Shibin Al-Kom comes from? Should we write it like ϣⲓⲡⲓⲛⲁⲗⲕⲟⲩⲙ or translate it to Coptic or maybe it's derived from Coptic itself? I just have no idea. --Bloomaround (talk) 12:05, 12 January 2018 (UTC)Reply

The official website[1] (in Arabic) of the governorate talks about the original Coptic name for Shibin Al-Kom (also looks like Kom is a Greek word for village), and that it was called "أتبربيش". May be ‎ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ can help with transliterating it back to Coptic. --ⲡⲓⲙⲟⲩⲓ (talk) 14:54, 12 January 2018 (UTC)Reply
The only thing I dare to say here so far is that the first syllable in أتبربيش may go back to Hieroglyphic hw.t ("house"), which is in its construct state ϩⲁ- (in Bohairic often ⲁ-) or (ϩ)ⲁⲧ- when the second words starts with a vowel.
I cannot verify that this very branch of the Nile was called spnty, and I don't see how it can evolve to an Arabic شيبين, because the variation s - sh usually does not happen in Coptic except in two cases: Either there is already one sh in the word and it gets assimilated, i.e. Bohairic ϣⲁϣϥ '7', whose Akhmimic form ⲥⲁⳉϥ shows the original state. In earlier Bohairic it was for sure ⲥⲁϣϥ (and even earlier, ⲥⲁϧϥ). Or, something which happens even more seldom, the combination sb or sp can yield ϣⲃ instead of ⲥⲃ. However, the long ي between ب and ش makes it improbable that there was a cluster sb/sp. (On the other hand, the long i in Arabic can be an irregular outcome). There are words in Coptic which look similar to the Arabic name, like ϣⲃⲓⲛ and ϣⲉⲃⲏⲛⲓ, but they don't make a lot of sense in my opinion.
However, شيبين does not feel genuinely Arabic to me and I think it is Coptic indeed.

ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ (talk) 16:12, 12 January 2018 (UTC)Reply

أتبربيش seems to be Atarbechis which we can see in Barrington Atlas. It's located further north somewhere where modern At Talbiyyah is located. ϣⲃⲓⲛ actually makes sense to me considering the second part to be derived from Greek word for village and city's location in fertile Nile Delta. --ⲡⲁⲣⲇⲁ (talk) 23:18, 29 April 2018 (UTC)Reply
Hmm, well, we could take ϣⲃⲓⲛ. It sounds probable for me too. And in the worst case, we have to change it, its OK. Ϯⲙⲉⲗⲗⲓⲥⲏⲧ (talk) 13:07, 30 April 2018 (UTC)Reply
Is everyone OK with ϣⲃⲓⲛ then? Or ϣⲃⲓⲛⲭⲱⲙⲏ maybe? --ⲡⲁⲣⲇⲁ (talk) 21:07, 7 May 2018 (UTC)Reply
Yeah, Im fine with ϣⲃⲓⲛ. ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ (talk) 13:21, 9 May 2018 (UTC)Reply
Looks like Shibin is ϣⲃⲉⲛϯ mentioned by Amélineau, Timm, Champollion and Ramzi. --ⲥⲉⲣⲕⲓ (talk) 07:34, 22 November 2019 (UTC)Reply

I was wrong, Shibin is certainly not ϣⲃⲉⲛϯ (it's Shabanat). It's original form is Shaybin with unknown etymology. I think it could be a borrowing from Syriac but I can't tell for sure. Any ideas? (see also Shibin al-Qanatir) --ⲫⲁϯⲟⲩⲉⲣϣⲓ (talk) 15:31, 8 August 2020 (UTC)Reply

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