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Talk:Wp/cop/ⲁⲡⲧⲉⲗϩⲁⲗⲓⲙ ϩⲁϥⲉⲍ

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Latest comment: 6 years ago by Ⲡⲓⲙⲟⲩⲓ in topic Filmography

The Dark-Skinned Nightingale[edit source]

I translated العندليب الأسمر‎‎ as: ϩⲁⲗⲏⲧ `ⲛⲭⲏⲙⲓ ⲉⲧϩⲱⲥ `ⲛⲉϫⲱⲣϩ (literally, the dark bird that sings at night). Suggestions are welcome. --ⲡⲓⲙⲟⲩⲓ (talk) 00:37, 13 September 2017 (UTC)Reply

Black bird is ϩⲁⲗⲏⲧ `ⲛⲭⲁⲙⲉ (or -ⲭⲁⲙⲏ). What about a compound? A relative clause for a noun is maybe a bit unwieldy. We could use the traditional Egpytian method. How about ϩⲁⲥⲛϫⲱⲣϩ ("sings at night; singer at night", from an earlier *ḥs n grḥ in Demotic/Hieroglyphic) ϩⲁⲥ- is the compound form of ϩⲱⲥ to sing. And ϫⲱⲣϩ is night. Therefore, "dark(-skinned) nightingale" would be ⲡⲓϩⲁⲥⲛϫⲱⲣϩ `ⲛⲭⲁⲙⲉ. --ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ (talk) 13 September 2017
Thanks ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ, ⲡⲓϩⲁⲥⲛϫⲱⲣϩ `ⲛⲭⲁⲙⲉ reads better, I like it. --ⲡⲓⲙⲟⲩⲓ (talk) 15:41, 13 September 2017 (UTC)Reply

Filmography[edit source]

Just for now, I am using ϥⲓⲗⲙⲟⲕⲣⲁϥⲓⲁ for Filmography. What about the word film? should we construct a Coptic word, or borrow the word from another language (i.e., ϥⲓⲗⲙ) as it is almost the same in all other languages? If it's the latter, do we have any agreement on how to determine the gender (i.e., ⲡ ⲓⲉ ⲧ) of loan words, and when different spelling for the plural form is needed (e.g., ⲛⲓϥⲓⲗⲙ ⲓⲉ ⲛⲓⲁϥⲗⲏⲙ)? --ⲡⲓⲙⲟⲩⲓ (talk) 06:07, 14 September 2017 (UTC)Reply

I think we could stick with ϥⲓⲗⲙ. It is so widespread in almost every language of Europe and the Middle East that it is not very audacious to say that it would be the same in Coptic. We can think of a genuine Coptic word, but it is not a priority I guess. Also, speakers of Coptic would certainly treat it as a masculine noun. ⲡⲓϥⲓⲗⲙ, because it "sounds" masculine. Feminine nouns usually end in ⲓ. A real guide only exists about Greek loanwords: Masculine and neuter nouns are masculine in Coptic, feminine ones remain feminine. For loanwords from Arabic, there's actually less consistency, it depends on the ending and on the gender in Arabic.

I'm certain that the plural would be ⲛⲓϥⲓⲗⲙ, but personally I am a fan of distinct plurals. Also, it is not improbable that Egyptians would spontaneously use ⲛⲓⲁϥⲗⲏⲙ. So if you like, go ahead with ⲁϥⲗⲏⲙ.

About ϥⲓⲗⲙⲟⲕⲣⲁϥⲓⲁ: The word as such is OK, as it is also used in Arabic which means the probability is would also be used in Coptic is very high (I mean when a word is used in both Greek and Arabic, then it is certainly also existent in Coptic). The second part shows up in Coptic a lot of times in words like ⲅⲣⲁⲫⲏ (scripture from greek graphê) or ⲅⲣⲁⲫⲉⲩⲥ (scribe from grapheus). Now, as you may now, ⲅ is usually not used in Coptic words and in Greek loanwords it sometimes replaced by ⲕ (as is ⲇ by ⲧ). So you see also ⲕⲣⲁⲫⲁⲓⲟⲥ (which is hypercorrect as they thought e is actually a diphthong and -os the real Greek ending) or ⲕⲣⲁⲫⲉⲩⲥ. However, ⲫ mostly (I almost want to say always) remains ⲫ and is not written as ϥ. There is even more exchange between ⲫ and ⲡ. Even ⲫⲉⲃⲣⲟⲩⲁⲣⲓⲟⲥ should be written with ⲫ, although it is written in the wikipedia (by me) as ϥⲉⲃⲣⲟⲩⲁⲣⲓⲟⲥ which is not widespread in traditional texts (and I think I should change it to ⲫⲉⲃⲣⲟⲩⲁⲣⲓⲟⲥ!).

So I prefer ϥⲓⲗⲙⲟⲅⲣⲁⲫⲓⲁ, or if somebody wants, ϥⲓⲗⲙⲟⲕⲣⲁⲫⲓⲁ. But ϥⲓⲗⲙⲟⲕⲣⲁϥⲓⲁ looks a bit antithetical to the Coptic orthography. --ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ (talk) 15 September 2017

Thanks ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ. Then, let's just stick to ϥⲓⲗⲙⲟⲅⲣⲁⲫⲓⲁ. Initially, I used ϥⲓⲗⲙⲟⲕⲣⲁϥⲓⲁ to avoid the pronunciation confusion, but since ⲅⲣⲁⲫⲓⲁ is a well known suffix, then it's okay. --ⲡⲓⲙⲟⲩⲓ (talk)