Talk:Wp/cop/ⲭⲁⲛⲁⲧⲁ

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    Queen Elizabeth II[edit source]

    Any recommendation for Queen Elizabeth II name?

    • ⲉⲗⲓⲍⲁⲡⲉⲥ II (current)
    • ⲉⲗⲓⲍⲁⲡⲉⲥ (ⲥⲛⲟⲩϯ)
    • ⲉⲗⲓⲍⲁⲡⲉⲥ 2
    • ⲉⲗⲓⲍⲁⲡⲉⲥ ⲃ̅ (honestly, not a big fan of Greek numerals)

    --ⲡⲓⲙⲟⲩⲓ (talk) 04:15, 26 August 2017 (UTC)Reply[reply]

    Fortunately, ⲉⲗⲓⲥⲁⲃⲉⲧ shows up in Coptic sources a lot of times. Other variants are ⲉⲗⲓⲥⲁⲃⲏⲑ or, which I really don't like, ⲉⲗⲉⲓⲍⲁⲃⲉⲧ. If a name is common enough in Coptic texts, I would go for the one which is already used the most:ⲉⲗⲓⲥⲁⲃⲉⲧ
    Okay then, let's use ⲉⲗⲓⲥⲁⲃⲉⲧ. --ⲡⲓⲙⲟⲩⲓ (talk) 16:08, 26 August 2017 (UTC)Reply[reply]

    About the numerals, I wasnt sure before some time ago either. I try to avoid abbreviated numerals, as I like to write them out. Also, in all other dialects of Coptic numerals were usually written out. In a text of Emile Maher Ishak, I found how Coptic deals with these cases: ⲉⲗⲓⲥⲁⲃⲉⲧ ϯⲙⲁϩⲃ̅ in the headline (abbreviated because it's the headline), in written text rather ⲉⲗⲓⲥⲁⲃⲉⲧ ϯⲙⲁϩⲥⲛⲟⲩϯ. --ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ (talk) 26 August 2017 (UTC)

    Prime Minister[edit source]

    I came up with these words to mean a prime minister:

    • ⲁⲛϫⲱϫ (ⲓⲉ ⲁⲫⲉ) `ⲛⲛⲓⲣⲉⲙⲛϫⲟⲙ: the head of the ministers رئيس الوزراء (current)
    • ⲁⲫⲉ `ⲛⲡⲓϫⲟⲙ: the head of the government/state
      • However, I am afraid it might be confusing, as we are using ⲣⲉϥϭⲓⲙⲱⲓⲧ (مرشد) `ⲛϫⲟⲙ to mean president.

    ⲣⲉϥⲥⲟϭⲛⲓ could also be used to refer to minister, but I would like to reserve it for chancellor e.g., Angela Merkel.
    --ⲡⲓⲙⲟⲩⲓ (talk) 05:43, 26 August 2017 (UTC)Reply[reply]

    As in Demotic the word 'mr' ⲗⲟ is used for overseer (see Coptic compounds like ⲗⲁϣⲁⲛⲉ and ⲗⲉⲙⲏⲏϣⲉ), we could use the Demotic title mr sh- overseer of the scribes as Coptic ⲗⲁⲥⲁϧ for minister.
    Also, I think the word for 'prime minister' and 'chancellor' (and 'grand vizier'!) should be the same, as they describe the same position and it is only in some Western languages they are separated with a special name for it. We could therefore use ⲛⲟϫ `ⲛⲗⲁⲥⲁϩ (think of Arabic 'grand vizier') or ⲡⲓϣⲟⲣⲡ `ⲛⲗⲁⲥⲁϧ for 'prime minister'. --ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ (talk) 26 August 2017 (UTC)
    ϯⲙⲁⲕⲙⲉⲕ ϫⲉ ⲡⲓϣⲉϫⲓ ⲛⲟϫ `ⲛⲗⲁⲥⲁϧ ⲟⲩϣⲉϫⲓ `ⲛⲗⲉⲙⲕⲏⲙⲓ ⲉϥⲉⲗⲛⲟⲩϥⲗⲓ `ⲛⲧⲉ رئيس الوزراء. ⲁⲩⲱ ⲉⲧⲃⲉوزير ⲙⲁⲗⲉⲛⲉⲗ ⲭⲣⲏⲥⲧⲁⲓ `ⲙⲡⲓϣⲉϫⲓ `ⲛⲗⲁⲥⲁϧ! --ϯⲙⲉⲗⲗⲓⲥⲏⲧ
    أنا أعتقد هذا أيضا
    User:بطرس مرقس
    It seems people here like the idea of ⲗⲁⲥⲁϧ 'minister' and ⲛⲟϫ `ⲛⲗⲁⲥⲁϧ 'prime minister'. But reading the suggestions of ⲡⲓⲙⲟⲩⲓ, I think we may need two (different?) words for 'government' and 'state' soon. At least, we could take ⲙⲉⲧⲣⲉⲙⲛϫⲟⲙ for 'politics' and ϫⲟⲙ for 'state'. What about 'government'?

    The problem with ⲣⲉⲙⲛϫⲟⲙ is that we already have reserved it for 'politician'. Btw, we should change all writings of ⲣⲉⲙⲡϫⲟⲙ to ⲣⲉⲙⲛϫⲟⲙ. (I'll do that after some time when there are no objections.) And as 'head of state' (president) we already have ⲣⲉϥϭⲓⲙⲱⲓⲧ `ⲛϫⲟⲙ. --ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ (talk) 27 August 2017

    ⲡⲓⲣⲁⲛ `ⲛϯϩⲛⲟⲩⲛⲉⲧⲙⲉ[edit source]

    Why did you use ⲟⲩⲑⲟⲩⲁ and not ⲟⲑⲁⲟⲩⲁ? --ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ (talk) 26 August 2017

    Good observation. The reason is Canadians do not pronounce the 'a' in Ottawa as an 'ɑː' (IPA), it is usually pronounced as a very short 'o' i.e., Otto-wa. Also, some would pronounce it a reduced 'a' (IPA: ə) or ⲉ (`ⲙⲙⲉⲧⲣⲉⲙⲛ̀ⲭⲏⲙⲓ). So I thought why repeat the same mistake as Arabic, no one pronounce it as أوتاوا. --ⲡⲓⲙⲟⲩⲓ (talk) 16:04, 26 August 2017 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    But still, what is with the ⲟⲩ-? Also, no language which likes to transcribe proper nouns into its own script (Azeri 'Ottava', Latvian 'Otava', Russian Оттава and even Hindi (which usually wants to take all names exactly from English) has otāvā) takes into account the special local pronunciation of Ottawa. And isn't Ottawa actually from 'odawa' which is pronounced like oh-dah-wah anyway? But yeah, if you prefer ⲟⲑⲟⲩⲁ, let's stick to it. I just wanted to ask. --ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ (talk) 26 August 2017
    You are right, the natives (aboriginal people) used to call it Odawa, where the English name Ottawa was taken. My point is that there is already an ongoing debate on the pronunciation of the Coptic alphabet. On top of that, I do not want to create a word that is pronounced slightly different from how it is written. I, personally, think that local pronunciation should be considered for native words, hence I prefer to use ⲟⲑⲟⲩⲁ. --ⲡⲓⲙⲟⲩⲓ (talk) 16:33, 26 August 2017 (UTC)Reply[reply]

    The word's origin[edit source]

    Using a simple tool as Wiktionary, we can enlighten ourselves with the origin of words, where Canada was lent to the world through the French, Canada, which was a Francization of the Laurentian, kanata, no Greek origins with ⟨χ⟩. --Mahmudmasri (talk) 02:41, 5 February 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

    The spelling has less to do with etymology in this case, but with the question how /p, t, k/ should be represented in loanwords in Bohairic, namely as either ⲫ ⲑ ⲭ or ⲡ ⲧ ⲕ. Ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ (talk) 23:55, 17 June 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    If spelling has less to do with etymology, then it should at least be approximated, as it now looks as a phony Egyptian word. Another point, I couldn't understand why plosive consonants should be represented with fricative, historically aspirated letters? Who decided that? Canada is a modern loanword, it should never be spelled with "ⲭ" which was used to spell Greek-origin words with "χ". Rules are important to avoid lawless spelling. Thank you. --Mahmudmasri (talk) 21:35, 26 June 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]