Talk:Wp/cop/ⲥϧⲁⲓ `ⲛϩⲣⲱⲙⲁⲓⲟⲥ

From Wikimedia Incubator
Jump to: navigation, search

ⲥϧⲁⲓ `ⲛϩⲣⲱⲙⲁⲓⲟⲥ ⲛⲉⲙⲁⲗⲫⲁⲃⲏⲧⲁ `ⲛϩⲣⲱⲙⲁⲓⲟⲥ[edit]

Should this article be about the 'Latin alphabet' (of the Latin language) ⲁⲗⲫⲁⲃⲏⲧⲁ `ⲛϩⲣⲱⲙⲁⲓⲟⲥ or the 'Latin script' (which is also used by many other, modern languages) ⲓⲉⲡⲥϧⲁⲓ `ⲛϩⲣⲱⲙⲁⲓⲟⲥ ? We should keep it apart. Greetings, 12/Aug/2017 User:بطرس مرقس

Indeed, you are totally right. I will fix it later. However, I was thinking to to rename this page to the Italian alphabet (ⲛⲉⲛⲕⲁⲡ `ⲛⲣⲉⲙⲛⲓⲧⲁⲗⲓⲁ), and the other one to the Latin script (ⲛⲉⲛⲕⲁⲡ `ⲛϩⲣⲱⲙⲁⲓⲟⲥ or ⲡⲓⲥϧⲁⲓ `ⲛϩⲣⲱⲙⲁⲓⲟⲥ), in order not to confuse the reader with alphabet versus script. --ⲡⲓⲙⲟⲩⲓ (talk) 05:42, 14 August 2017 (UTC)
What is the ⲛⲉⲛ prefix in ⲛⲉⲛⲕⲁⲡ? Could we use ⲓⲉⲡⲥϧⲁⲓ for 'script'? ⲥϧⲁⲓ has also a more general meaning , whereas ⲓⲉⲡⲥϧⲁⲓ means 'script' only. --ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ (talk) 14 August 2017 (UTC)
ⲛⲉⲛ is the definite article for the plural, unlike ⲛⲓ it is used when the word is to be followed by `ⲛ or `ⲙ as in ⲛⲉⲛⲕⲁⲡ `ⲛⲣⲉⲙⲛⲓⲧⲁⲗⲓⲁ. I would prefer to use ⲓⲉⲃ ⲛⲥϧⲁⲓ (see Moawad dictionary p.80) to ⲓⲉⲡⲥϧⲁⲓ. --ⲡⲓⲙⲟⲩⲓ (talk) 15:14, 14 August 2017 (UTC)
Just asking, if we are going to use ⲓⲉⲃ ⲛⲥϧⲁⲓ (literally art of writing) to mean script, what about calligraphy? --ⲡⲓⲙⲟⲩⲓ (talk) 16:38, 14 August 2017 (UTC)
Yeah I already thought it's the plural, I wasn't sure as I thought it could be a prefixed word. I prefer ⲓⲉⲡⲥϧⲁⲓ because it is already used in older Coptic literature. If we wanna use it for calligraphy, it's ok. However, we should continue the form as such (ⲓⲉⲡⲥϧⲁⲓ) because it is used in Coptic literature. For newer creations, it is just personal style of whether you wanna use the older synthetic construction or the newer analytic one. --ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ (talk) 14 August 2017 (UTC)
Let's wait for others' opinions as well. Personally, I prefer to save ⲓⲉⲡⲥϧⲁⲓ for calligraphy, as it just gives the right meaning. I have not looked up ⲓⲉⲡⲥϧⲁⲓ in the literature, I just looked up the word in the dictionary, and I could only find it in the analytic form ⲓⲉⲃ ⲛⲥϧⲁⲓ to mean art of writing or script. Would you mind sharing some reference to a Coptic literature that uses the form ⲓⲉⲡⲥϧⲁⲓ as googling the word yielded nothing? Thanks. --ⲡⲓⲙⲟⲩⲓ (talk) 18:58, 14 August 2017 (UTC)
Yeah I know, googling often doesn't yield anything. Even if you google words used in the Coptic wikipedia, they often won't show up. Or Coptic texts published in the platform academia... Crum lists a couple of words , among them ⲓⲉⲡⲥϧⲁⲓ on p.81b and on 383b. --ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ (talk) 14 August 2017 (UTC)
When it comes to me I would use the form ⲓⲉⲡⲥϧⲁⲓ with the meaning calligraphy. Explanation: 1. The literal meaning 'art of writing' sounds nice for calligraphy. And if it is easy to find another word for script, we can use this particular one for calligraphy. 2. For the normal, unbound form I prefer ⲓⲟⲡⲓ, as this is the original form and also in line with the words in all other dialects (ⲉⲓⲟⲡⲉ, ⲓⲁⲡⲓ). ⲓⲉⲃ or better ⲓⲉⲡ (consonant changes ⲃ - ⲡ are very seldom and odd between the unbound and construct form in Coptic) should only be used for the construct form. That said, I think we should avoid forms like ⲓⲟⲡⲓ `ⲛⲥϧⲁⲓ in all those cases where Coptic gives us its nice old Egyptian way to form compound: ⲓⲉⲡⲥϧⲁⲓ --ⲕⲁⲣⲩⲛⲏ (talk) 14:09, 15 August 2017 (UTC)