Talk:Wp/cop/Ⲟⲩⲁϩ ⲙ̀ⲃⲉⲣⲃⲉⲣ

al-Farfarun is actually an Arabic plural for "farfar" with unclear etymology (Peust, i'd suppose it's Berber or Egyptian). --ⲫⲁϯⲟⲩⲉⲣϣⲓ (talk) 22:16, 2 July 2020 (UTC)

It also reminds me of an Old Coptic name of Bahariya Oasis - ⲧⲁⲥⲧⲥ. It's etymology is unclear as well and i guess it could be an early borrowing from Berber languages (both Demotic dsds and Arabic (?) farfar). With that being said should we use something like ϥⲉⲣϥⲉⲣ for Farafra? Or create a plural ⲛⲓϥⲉⲣϥⲉⲣ to render an Arabic name? --ⲫⲁϯⲟⲩⲉⲣϣⲓ (talk) 22:25, 2 July 2020 (UTC)

And I guess you don't want to continue the Egyptian t3-jhw? It would be ⲑⲉϩⲉⲩ in Coptic. ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ (talk) 13:33, 3 July 2020 (UTC)

I guess t3-jhw is a kind of a "colonial" name that died off pretty quickly. I doubt Farafra ever had a strong Egyptian presence (like Kharga or Bahariya). Anyway, the name didn't survive into Medieval times (unlike most of the other oases that carried their Coptic names into Arabic) which kinda proves it was dead by the late Antiquity. --ⲫⲁϯⲟⲩⲉⲣϣⲓ (talk) 09:53, 4 July 2020 (UTC)

Regardless of the etymology in question - is this a bad joke? Here you say the Egyptian name is colonial, there you want to take the Greek name of a placename instead of a Coptic one, and in the article about Israel you didn't add any quality except for changing the Coptic word ⲑⲟ to ⲭⲱⲣⲁ. The majority is obviously fine here with ⲑⲟ, otherwise it would have been changed already. What is this here? Anti-Coptic Wikipedia? If you like Greek so much, there is also Greek Wikipedias, both ancient and modern. ⲁⲛⲉⲯⲓⲟⲩⲥⲓⲣⲓ (talk) 12:57, 4 July 2020 (UTC)

I suggest you don't know Coptic or want to create a pseudo-Coptic Demotic Wikipedia. If you study a genuine Coptic literature written by actual Copts in actual Coptic language you'd see that ⲑⲟ is used in a sense of "world" and is interchangeable with Greek ⲕⲟⲥⲙⲟⲥ. ⲭⲱⲣⲁ is a word for "country" that's why i've changed "Israel is a world in Asia" to "Israel is a country in Asia". --ⲫⲁϯⲟⲩⲉⲣϣⲓ (talk) 13:15, 4 July 2020 (UTC)

Bohairic uses ⲕⲟⲥⲙⲟⲥ for that and not ⲑⲟ. ⲁⲛⲉⲯⲓⲟⲩⲥⲓⲣⲓ (talk) 13:21, 4 July 2020 (UTC)

Two words can be synonyms and mean the same thing (see Crum 396a). --ⲫⲁϯⲟⲩⲉⲣϣⲓ (talk) 13:33, 4 July 2020 (UTC)

The point is that ⲑⲟ is not the usual word for "world" which means we can easily use it for "land, country". ⲁⲛⲉⲯⲓⲟⲩⲥⲓⲣⲓ (talk) 13:42, 4 July 2020 (UTC)

It's not a usual word for "world" but it gives us a context in a real speaking language. It's not "land, country" but "land, earth" while ⲭⲱⲣⲁ has the meaning of a "country", as simple as that. --ⲫⲁϯⲟⲩⲉⲣϣⲓ (talk) 13:48, 4 July 2020 (UTC)

Even you need to admit that ⲑⲟ rather means land than universe. Thank you! ⲁⲛⲉⲯⲓⲟⲩⲥⲓⲣⲓ (talk) 14:02, 4 July 2020 (UTC)

Right, "land" not "country". You're welcome. --ⲫⲁϯⲟⲩⲉⲣϣⲓ (talk) 14:18, 4 July 2020 (UTC)

Also think about it ϥⲉⲣϥⲉⲣ, ⲫⲉⲣⲫⲉⲣⲱⲛ and ⲑⲉϩⲉⲩ would all be new creations. But instead of taking the Egyptian one which is phonologically plausible, you rather invent Greekized forms like ⲫⲉⲣⲫⲉⲣⲱⲛ which are ultimately from Arabic. Hahah that is so ridiculous. ⲁⲛⲉⲯⲓⲟⲩⲥⲓⲣⲓ (talk) 14:07, 4 July 2020 (UTC)

How is ⲫⲉⲣⲫⲉⲣⲱⲛ Greecized? It's just a Late-Bohairic rendering of an Arabic al-Farfarun. It turned out al-Farfarun as well as Farafra are the plurals of farfar. That's why i propose to take it as a Coptic name. The difference between it and ⲑⲉϩⲉⲩ is that t3-jhw is only attested in Ancient times and is likely a hapax (correct me if i'm wrong) that was surely forgotten in latter period (that's why it left no traces in the contemporary toponymy of the region). --ⲫⲁϯⲟⲩⲉⲣϣⲓ (talk) 14:18, 4 July 2020 (UTC)

I didn't know it is a hapax. But yeah it doesn't show up in Demotic, and so I also don't think it survived into Coptic. When a word is attested in Demotic, I'm usually fine with taking it. But if it is just attested earlier than that, and not very often, it was probably not a common word. I just wanted to suggest something, and I didn't want to create a huge discussion. I'm sorry. ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ (talk) 14:26, 4 July 2020 (UTC)

I have found out that the Arabic word فرفر which is the root of the name means "fizzy spring". So we could translate this name in a number of ways – ⲫⲁⲛⲓⲃⲉⲃⲓ, ⲛⲓϩⲟⲙⲃⲉ ⲙ̀ⲃⲉⲃⲓ, ⲫⲙⲁⲛⲛⲓⲃⲉⲃⲓ etc. --ⲫⲁϯⲟⲩⲉⲣϣⲓ (talk) 21:02, 19 March 2021 (UTC)

Which of these do you prefer? ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ (talk) 02:47, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

I think ⲫⲁⲛⲓⲃⲉⲃⲓ is the best option. --ⲫⲁϯⲟⲩⲉⲣϣⲓ (talk) 15:10, 14 April 2021 (UTC)