Talk:Wp/cop/Ⲗⲩⲃⲏ

Ⲉⲑⲃⲉ ⲟⲩ ⲧⲉⲛⲉⲣⲭⲣⲉⲥⲑⲉ ̀ⲙⲡⲓⲣⲁⲛ ⲗⲩⲃⲏ? Ⲟⲩⲟⲛ ⲟⲩⲣⲁⲛ ̀ⲛⲣⲉⲙⲛⲭⲏⲙⲓ Ⲫⲁⲓⲁⲧ ⲓⲉ Ⲑⲉⲙⲫⲁⲓⲁⲧ ⲁⲛⲉⲯⲓⲟⲩⲥⲓⲣⲓ (talk) 18:38, 2 July 2020 (UTC)

ⲫⲁⲓⲁⲧ or ⲛⲓⲫⲁⲓⲁⲧ means specifically a Lybian nome (Mareotis) not a territory of modern Libya. --ⲫⲁϯⲟⲩⲉⲣϣⲓ (talk) 20:49, 2 July 2020 (UTC)

The scalas are the doom of Coptic revival :( ⲁⲛⲉⲯⲓⲟⲩⲥⲓⲣⲓ (talk) 20:57, 2 July 2020 (UTC)

What do you mean? --ⲫⲁϯⲟⲩⲉⲣϣⲓ (talk) 21:14, 2 July 2020 (UTC)

I just think that Mareotis is too far east, maybe medieval writers thought that that is were Libya starts, but all these pseudo-Greek place names which are found in medieval scalas are not worth a lot. They were never in use by common Copts, and their only authoritative value is that they are older then what we write here and others compose elsewhere today.

Clearly, the writers of the scalas were not speakers of the language anymore. They copied the scalas of others, and when they didn't know a word for something, they just took a Greek word (just as I did in another article where anybody is welcome to tell me a real Coptic word). That is an OK thing to do, but I wouldn't like to see them as authoritative. Sometimes, there is just no Coptic word and we need to borrow one. It is OK, but it is a pity that this happens in a case like "Libya" where there is an Old Egyptian word for it. ⲁⲛⲉⲯⲓⲟⲩⲥⲓⲣⲓ (talk) 21:27, 2 July 2020 (UTC)

In case of ⲫⲁⲓⲁⲧ it's not true. ⲛⲓⲫⲁⲓⲁⲧ is a usual medieval name for Mareotis/Lybian nome and the western Delta in general (see Amelineau, Timm, Vycichl, Champollion, Ramzi, Peust and so on). On the other hand ⲗⲩⲃⲏ is a common Coptic word for Roman Libya (most likely not borrowed from Greek but influenced by it's orthography) whose name was taken in modern times for a territory that comprises modern Libya (there was no such thing as Libya before Italians i guess, it was separate entities like Cyrenaica, Tripolitania and Fezzan). I don't agree with the other part of your message as well. The majority of Scalaes lexicon is used in genuine Coptic texts written by native Coptic speakers which proves that this lexicon is how Medieval Copts would speak to each other. Greek is a part of Coptic just like French/Latin is a part of English. --ⲫⲁϯⲟⲩⲉⲣϣⲓ (talk) 21:52, 2 July 2020 (UTC)

I think ⲗⲩⲃⲏ is fine, we can use ⲫⲁⲓⲁⲧ for the other place. I used to call Libya ⲫⲁⲓⲁⲧ, but if we can use ⲫⲁⲓⲁⲧ for Maroetis, then we can do it. ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ (talk) 04:10, 4 July 2020 (UTC)