User talk:TeleComNasSprVen/Archive 1

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Latest comment: 13 years ago by Mon Tasik in topic Why?


Welcome[edit source]

Welcome to the Wikimedia Incubator! At the right there are some important links, and here are some tips and info:

If you have any questions, feel free to ask it on my talk page.

Greetings, OWTB 13:41, 26 September 2010 (UTC)Reply

User page[edit source]

Well, it's more a recommendation and not a rule. On a multilingual wiki like incubator it's very useful if we are able to see which languages a user speaks, so we can communicate with him as best as we can. :) --OWTB 04:36, 28 September 2010 (UTC)Reply

Importing[edit source]

Why do you import random templates here which have been deleted after way so hard work to remove them from random languages, where they have been used without prefixes?

Danny B. 13:39, 3 April 2011 (UTC)Reply

I've been trying to import several MediaWiki pages in order to better help facilitate and coordinate any cross-wiki anti-vandalism work, because we especially frequently need the links generated from the tools to combat the vandalism any user might bring about, and some of these interface messages like MediaWiki:Sp-contributions-footer contain several templates that make them look nicer. To help with this, so we don't miss out any templates or whatever to format the pages, I just check the "Include all templates" checkbox/option in Special:Import, and then re-delete any extraneous ones created in error. You can see the results of all this from my import log. This had originally stemmed from the frustration I got when I made a request here and received no response from any administrators because there was no "Editprotected" template, and I subsequently left a note on the community portal as well, but that was left uunnoticed. Besides, I think there are a lot of unprefixed templates used for general maintenance and allowed here on Incubator anyway. TeleComNasSprVen 20:43, 3 April 2011 (UTC)Reply

Re the communication: There is also IRC channel, where you can reach random admins, plus email interface works as well if there is urgent need.
Re the import: Bunch of imported templates were previously deleted. It took us about 1.5 years of really hard work to (nearly) fully cleanup the Incubator from the mess which was here before I've created random cleanup tools and lists. And those imported templates created the mess again, because people now use them, since they exist, and it causes confusion and frustration as you can see at I:CP now. We are basically trying to minimize the number of unprefixed templates rather than increase it to prevent further such issues.
Danny B. 22:45, 3 April 2011 (UTC)Reply

About the imports: they are very important in the anti-vandalism department, and which is separate from just the prefix-maintenance department. Yes, it's unfortunate that the MediaWiki pages I've imported also happen to contain templates, but that is how they are and that is how they are formatted. And they are also Incubator general maintenance-related templates too; what do you suppose we do, given that they are in English: prefix them under Template:Wp/en/fmbox? TeleComNasSprVen 23:54, 3 April 2011 (UTC)Reply

What is "very important in the anti-vandalism department" on templates like Tlx, Tld, Documentation/*, Linked, Dablink, Para and many others? What exactly were you importing for "anti-vandalism department"?
Danny B. 00:16, 4 April 2011 (UTC)Reply

As to the off-wiki communication channels, what if I decide that I'm not going to visit the IRC channel (since it's relatively empty anyway) or that I don't have a working email address? TeleComNasSprVen 00:01, 4 April 2011 (UTC)Reply

Then wait. You are newbie admin. It's easy to make something wrong (as it already happened :-/) when being newbie. We have a proverb in Czech: "Measure twice, cut once."
You should as local admin have working email address.
Danny B. 00:16, 4 April 2011 (UTC)Reply

The MediaWiki messages and their associated templates contain important links to other sites such as$1 which can help track and monitor a vandal's contributions in real-time, so that they can be reverted on sight if they make a non-constructive edit anywhere. We constantly have to jump onto a wiki to revert the vandal, and then jump back onto the tool to continually monitor his activity on other sites, so these pages ease the linking for that to happen. As to email addresses, that is not a requirement explicitly covered by the policy, as stated here. Like I explained, if you are to change the policy and make it stricter for us newbies, I'll promptly ask on Meta for my desysopship to accommodate the situation. TeleComNasSprVen 00:51, 4 April 2011 (UTC)Reply

Which messages? Can you please be specific? Also, how for instance template Documentation/start box2‎ helps with "tracking and monitoring vandal's contributions in real-time"? Thanks.
Re email: I said "should", not "must". Check RFC 2119 for those words... There is plenty of freemail services on the Internet, I actually do not see any reason to not have any email address, especially while being an admin which should be reachable by random channels. For instance, imagine you'll block somebody and that person would like to talk to you then.
Danny B. 01:07, 4 April 2011 (UTC)Reply

The messages that I was talking about when I linked to them above; i.e. MediaWiki:Sp-contributions-footer, which contains an unprefixed Template:Fmbox. Would you prefer it if I prefix it under Template:Wp/en/fmbox instead, since the template is written primarily in English? If you scroll to the part that says "SUL" you will see the link. There is a function in Special:Import that allows me to additionally transwiki any templates that link to the particular target page of the transwiki request, so whatever MediaWiki messages I import also imports the templates there. It is the page that allows us to track the contributions, and the messages and templates just ease the linking part of it. TeleComNasSprVen 01:39, 4 April 2011 (UTC)Reply

Wp/han[edit source]

Now why did you create it when there is apparently no contributor in such language and no other page as well? Are you aware of things like breaking the statistics and so on with that?

Danny B. 00:34, 4 April 2011 (UTC)Reply

Because I felt that the wiki had to be given a chance to attract more native speakers of the language to start it. There are plenty of other test wikis that currently don't have any "native speakers", like Wp/acy and Wb/mul, that should be given a chance on this wiki. TeleComNasSprVen 00:51, 4 April 2011 (UTC)Reply

The chances are exactly the same regardless if the wiki has or has not the infopage.
Wp/acy was started by probably native speaker (unlike Wp/han started by you), however should obviously be deleted as long time unused, Wb/mul a) has other page(s) b) should be deleted anyway, since SFIK mul isn't allowed.
Danny B. 01:16, 4 April 2011 (UTC)Reply

Thanks[edit source]

...for the welcome.  :) Philippe (WMF) 09:25, 4 April 2011 (UTC)Reply

Substing and deleting[edit source]

Please do NOT subst and delete templates just because you think it is the similar case to other cases already done. It is not. Different templates must be treated different ways and some will remain on whitelist. Please do not do the I:M/IT maintenance, because you create more work than you save. Or ask if you want to work on it about what is supposed to be done. Thank you.

Danny B. 22:55, 13 April 2011 (UTC)Reply

Ok, I understand. Apologies for any mistakes. What work needs to be done there? Is there anything else besides I:M/IT? Perhaps we should just highlight the recently restored ones with bold, so that way I can tell what is currently on the whitelist. I'm also a bit confused as to your deletion summary "unused unprefixed template", because a few templates (like Template:Documentation_subpage and Template:Selfref) still has incoming links. Do they need to be delinked too? I was able to go through a few of your template deletions as well, and delink any previous templates that you deleted; is that considered legal? TeleComNasSprVen 23:15, 13 April 2011 (UTC)Reply

It is necessary to differ between transclusions and incoming links, between regular usage and sandbox usage, legal and ilegal usage etc... Also not everything appears on Special:WhatLinksHere, such as dynamically generated things. Some templates are supposed to be modified before the substitution etc. Just simply let it be. There is no need to rush and it is better if it is consistently done by one person. There is still quite a lot of maintenance elsewhere, so feel free to do it there... Thanks.
Danny B. 21:41, 15 April 2011 (UTC)Reply

Why?[edit source]

Hello, why you deleted my template: Wikipedia Bahasa-bahasa Daerah Indonesia. Please restore it or please copy its content into: this template. I can't remember its content anymore. -- Mon Tasik 01:25, 4 May 2011 (UTC)Reply