Talk:Wp/cop/ⲕⲁϩⲓ

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ⲡⲓⲑⲟ ⲛⲉⲙ ⲡⲓⲕⲁϩⲓ[edit]

I see in the Wikipedia ⲡⲓⲑⲟ is used for earth and ⲡⲓⲕⲁϩⲓ for land, country. Although I know that it can be used this way, it is very rare, and in Coptic earth (as a planet) is usually called ⲡⲓⲕⲁϩⲓ and ⲡⲓⲑⲟ for land, country - think of the Coptic and Demotic names which start with "land of..." t3-n-... ⲧⲉⲛ...ⲑⲉⲛ... I know it is a huge effort if we change it all, but can we change ⲑⲟ and ⲕⲁϩⲓ? -بطرس مرقس

Yeah, if you want to change it, it is a huge effort, but yeah, when we started here, we exchanged them. It was a big mistake. ⲕⲁϩⲓ should be the planet earth, ⲑⲟ the land/country. But lets change it. If we dont change it now, it gets even harder to change it in future

Another thing: There are two ⲕⲁϩⲓ: ⲡⲓⲕⲁϩⲓ 'earth' and ϯⲕⲁϩⲓ 'district'! --ⲁϩⲙⲉⲧ 1 October 2017

I have to say I don't like ⲑⲟ for 'country, nation state'. The word has a basically specialised use in Coptic (vs pre-Coptic) as 'world, cosmos' and then in a handful of fossilised expressions (e.g Bohairic ⲡⲓⲑⲟ ⲧⲏⲣϥ < οἰκουμένη [from < tA r Dr.f Černý p. 179] Apocalypse 3:10, ⲡⲁⲓⲑⲟ < κόσμος [usually ⲡⲁⲓⲕⲟⲥⲙⲟⲥ in Bohairic]; Crum 396a) but not 'country, nation, region, etc'. The words most used in Coptic for 'country, region, (state)' are ⲕⲁϩⲓ and ⲭⲱⲣⲁ. As you say, ⲕⲁϩⲓ is also used for 'land, soil, (planet) Earth' so is perhaps less suitable. Therefore, I suggest ⲭⲱⲣⲁ as the word with the closest meaning to the modern concept of 'country, nation' (e.g. ϯⲭⲱⲣⲁ ⲛ̀ⲧⲉ ϯⲅⲁⲗⲁⲧⲓⲁ̀ "the country of the Galatians" Acts 18:23, ⲧⲭⲱⲣⲁ ⲛ̀ⲧⲉ ⲛⲓⲅⲉⲣⲅⲉⲥⲏⲛⲟⲥ "the country of the Gergesenes" Matthew 8:28, ⲧⲭⲱⲣⲁ ⲛ̀ⲉⲇⲱⲙ Genesis 32:3, etc). P.S. Monir Barsoum also uses ⲭⲱⲣⲁ as 'country, state' in his teaching book: "Ⲩⲧⲁⲗⲓⲁ, Ⲉⲗⲗⲁⲥ ⲛⲉⲙ Ⲭⲏⲙⲓ ϩⲁⲛⲭⲱⲣⲁ ⲛⲉ" (Ϣⲉ ⲛ̀ϩⲟ ⲉⲑⲃⲏⲧⲕ, p. 76). - AB
I dont see any problem with the use of both these words. Also, I don't see why we should use ⲭⲱⲣⲁ which is "region", and not "nation state". And a guy who writes ⲩⲧⲁⲗⲓⲁ is probably not more authoritative then any other person dealing with Coptic. بطرس مرقس (talk) 01:03, 27 February 2018 (UTC)
Agreed. Furthermore, I hope we don't have to explain the usage of ⲑⲱϣ and others now. And there is even ⲣⲉⲕⲁϩⲓ and ⲣⲉⲑⲟ! Ψενανουβισ (talk) 01:05, 27 February 2018 (UTC)
Hi Botros. I'm not sure you should be so dismissive about the work of someone who's written several books teaching Coptic. As I said, ⲭⲱⲣⲁ covers the meanings land ~ region while ⲑⲟ is basically only used in fixed expressions (therefore non-productive) in Coptic meaning world ~ cosmos. Obviously, there is no native Coptic word meaning 'nation state' exactly since this is a modern concept. I think, therefore, in Coptic ⲭⲱⲣⲁ is best suited for 'country' in its modern sense and moreover is the word used in modern Greek. Further, I suggest ϯⲡⲁⲧⲣⲓⲥ 'the homeland, motherland' and ⲡⲓϣⲗⲟⲗ (pl. ⲛⲓϣⲗⲱⲗ) 'the nation (of people)'. - AB