Incubator:Requests for deletions/Archive/2022

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Wp/tpn and Wp/tpw

Per I:AN#Unable to create a page, both Tupinambá and Old Tupí are extinct languages, so having both test projects violate LPP, there's another living language Nheengatu to which modern Tupi peoples speak and write (see Wp/yrl), so there's nothing beneficial for me to still maintain two extinct coded projects. --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 15:02, 28 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Considering that these pages are for the same language, there's any way to move it into Incubator Plus 2.0? There are some indigenous groups attempting to revive Old Tupi, so it might be useful to have something there. Erick Soares3 (talk) 19:00, 26 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Sure, if you want to, you may use Special:Export, then use Incubator Plus's Special:Import (ask their administrators if you saw permission errors). Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 11:49, 28 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

That's always possible. If you want anything exported, give me a sign. --OWTB (talk) 08:20, 4 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Take a note that a request for tpw.wikipedia is now rejected, so personally both projects can go to Incubator Plus now (if contributors are still thinking they are useful). Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 15:24, 8 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Since this post is inactive since 2023, I'll consider this closed. I'll be deleting both Wp/tpn and Wp/tpw. I've stored them in XML files if someone wants to move them to Incubator Plus, although I don't think this will ever happen considering both projects' inactivity. Iohanen (Garcez) (talk) 00:51, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Done Iohanen (Garcez) (talk) 01:24, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This section was archived on a request by: Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 08:33, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Wp/jat, Wt/jat, Wb/jat, Wn/jat, Wq/jat and Wy/jat

Per w:en:Special:Diff/1121838578, it's suspected (at least by @Uanfala) that pages in this test project aren't written in Inku (aka Jakati, which iso639-3:jat points to), probably a linguist in the affected region should join here to discuss whether their suspect is true. --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 04:38, 17 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Example text in Inku language is same as Jatki language. The code Jat was initially fir Jatki languge. In the article of Inku it is clearly written that the language belong to Punjab pronvice of Pakistan.

This wikipedia is written in Jatki language. So, this wikipedia should not be deleted. Otherwise a large no of written material may be destroyed. So it should be continued. Sraiki (talk) 05:24, 17 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

First, there used to be serious confusion about which exact language was denoted by the ISO code "jat". See the commentary in the Glottolog entry . This appears to have largely been resolved now, with both Glottolog and Ethnologue using that code for Inku, the language of a few small itinerant groups of Afghanistan that was probably never written and that may well be extinct by now. The name "Jakati" [sic], surprisingly still visible in the ISO 639-3 code tables , is almost certainly erroneous. The similar name "Jatki" appears never to have been used for Inku, but was historically common for a number of related languages of Pakistani Punjab (see en:Jatki language), most notably for what is nowadays known as Saraiki, a language with millions of speakers, a solid written tradition, and a Wikipedia of its own. Now, I don't speak any of those languages, so I can't know for sure. My hunch is that those incubator articles about places in Punjab that appear to use what looks to me like Saraiki orthography, are unlikely to be written in a possibly extinct language of Afghanistan. User:Sraiki, maybe you can help us here: what exact language have you written those articles in? where is it spoken? by how many people? Uanfala (talk) 12:07, 17 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

These articles are written the language, which is known Jatki. It is mainly spoken in Bar region . It is called Jatki in the region. It is spoken by more than 50% population of that region. The population of Jatki is more than 10 M. In all old documents it is Jatki.This language is entirely different from Saraiki and Punjabi. See this for more details, https://github.com/glottolog/glottolog/issues/895 .This language is also called en:Shahpuri dialect and en:Jhangvi dialect. This Jatki was also called en:Lahnda in old litrature whose Iso code is lah. As there is no current ISO code for Jhangvi and Shahpuri, I used Iso code of Jatki, because jat is code for Jatki and Jatki is mainly used for these dialects. See also https://www.routledge.com/Dictionary-of-the-Jatki-or-Western-Panjabi-Language/Jukes/p/book/9780367248680 This book is about Jatki language. Sraiki (talk) 12:25, 17 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Sraiki, Engr.ismailbhutta "I used Iso code of Jatki"? The problem is that iso639-3:jat page says Jakati, not Jatki, I'd say that this is an issue that should be resolved, or else it would be ultra-unfair for Inku/Jakati speakers (if any), as there are two cases the existing Wikipedias were occupied (good to say so?) codes for other unrelated languages (nrmwiki, says Norman Wikipedia but code is for Narom, and Wikipedia 10, which code is for Tama), and at least I really don't want it to be happened 3rd times and more. Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 04:12, 24 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I would support the merger of this incubator with existing pnb Wikipedia if possible. The Jatki dialect is widely understood by speakers of other dialects—for example, it is the dialect of Toba Tek Singh District where my family is from. My family are Doabi speakers (an eastern dialect) but many of the words we use overlap with Jatki due to two centuries having passed since my family left eastern Punjab. The Shahmukhi Punjabi Wikipedia already has very few active contributors, and see this energy focused there instead would be most welcome. Any differences that make a given dialect distinctive could also be applied to any other, making it less clear what is left as non-dialectal Punjabi. What is called the “standard” dialect (Majhi) is much more loose of a definition than that of other languages—the language, especially as it is used in Pakistan, has never had a single register which can truly be considered the “main” one due to its lack of official status and use in primarily colloquial contexts. In John Beames's comparative grammar of the northern Indic languages, he reckoned that Punjabi likely has the most dialect variation within the language out of all the major ones for lack of a standard written register. I would say that in line with that, it is perfectly fine for pnb Wikipedia to include articles written in a variety of dialects, and in fact should be expected if the project is meant to represent Punjabi as a whole as it is used in Pakistan. عُثمان (talk) 14:42, 12 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

(talk) Jatki is well known language in Pakistan which is spoken in 11 districts (Jhang, Chiniot, Toba Tek Singh, Sargodha, Khushab, Sahiwal, Pakpattan, Okara, Bahawalnagar, Vehari and Khanewal districts) of bar region of Punjab province over the area of 49,121 km². The population of Jatki language speaking areas is 26,374,221 according to census 2017 which is more than 50% jatki speaking and others are settlers from India on partition and other parts of Pakistan but they are not locals. The main,local and ancient language of bar region is jatki which has very rich literature and culture. My forefathers migrated from bar region to Saraiki region but the term "inko" is new for me and the people of bar region because their language is Jatki. So I endorse the comments of Mr Sraiki and I request to carry on the Wikipedia project for jatki language to save its literature and culture, regards. Ismail Bhutta 14:02, 17 November 2022 (UTC)

OK, I see. So Jatki, the language variety that both Sraiki and Ismail Bhutta refer to above, is one that doesn't have a dedicated ISO code. It is intermediate between pnb ("Western Punjabi" as used by the SIL) and skr (Saraiki). It is one of the many varieties that fall under the scope of the macrolanguage lah (Lahnda), but I don't think the code [lah] can be re-appropriated specifically for this variety. The code [jat] can't be used either, as that presently refers to the Inku language of Afghanistan (there has been confusion around that code before, but never to my knowledge has it been used for a language of Pakistan). The only way forward that I can see is to come up with a new Wikimedia-specific language code and then move the test wikipedia accordingly. I don't know how exactly Incubator works, so someone more knowledgeable could take up this task? Uanfala (talk) 19:45, 17 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

In such cases, the new codes should be a part of SIL's code change requests, probably ask @Amire80: on the details? Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 05:50, 18 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Liuxinyu970226@Uanfala@عُثمان Wt/jat, Wb/jat, Wn/jat, Wq/jat and Wy/jat be deleted per request of creator. Wp/jat may be discussed. Sraiki (talk) 07:14, 2 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Done. Language code does not correspond to the language being used. I have exported (only) Wp/jat to an xml file, if the community of contributors ever wish to move it to another place or if they ever get an ISO 639-3 code. It is publicly available for download here
Best regards — Garcez (talk) 23:57, 17 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

There are still some broken redirects of Wn/jat and Wq/jat? Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 04:06, 18 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Done. — Garcez (talk) 21:04, 18 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

This section was archived on a request by: — Garcez (talk) 00:00, 18 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]