Talk:Wp/tyv/Кол арын

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В русском разделе Википедии есть специальный проект по поддержке малых разделов Википедии на языках России. К его участникам можно и нужно обращаться с вопросами и просьбами о помощи. Не стесняйтесь это делать!

Contents

Copyright issues [edit]

Hi, who are you and why are you copying text directly from TyvaWiki? Not everything is GFDL on TyvaWiki since we're not concerned as much as Wikipedia projects about copyright.

Hi, please see the mainpage. It explains the purpose of this site. I apologise if any content has been copied from your website without permission. Please feel free to remove it, as long as you replace it with some text such as "This page violated my copyright privelages, it was copied from my website" or somesuch. Also, if you are a contributor to TyvaWiki, I would encourage you to help this place -- it is towards the eventual aim of starting a Wikipedia in Tyva language (as was already done successfully for Bashkir, Ossetic, Udmurt, etc). Thank you.

Articles with copyright issues have now been marked for deletion. We consider their use at TyvaWiki to fall under "fair use" since we are using them for learning and stuying the Tyvan language, yet the way they are presented here may not meet Wikipedia's copyright standards. One or two of the texts (the Anton Pavlovich Chekhov and Dialects and the Literary Language articles) may actually be public domain, but I don't know enough about the copyright laws dealing with Soviet Union publications. --Sborsody (talk) 03:48, 19 March 2012 (UTC)

Karakalpak [edit]

Please support m:Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Karakalpak 3--AlefZet 14:08, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Именование статей о людях / Tuvan name order [edit]

Весь этот раздел нужно перенести на отдельную страницу с именем вида "Wp/tyv/Википедия:Правила именования статей о людях", а здесь оставить только ссылку.

Согласно обсуждению vk.com/topic-36915529_26722417, за основу именования статей о людях взят принцип, принятый в русскоязычном разделе Википедии: использовать формат "Фамилия, Имя Отчество". При этом, текст самой статьи должен в любом случае начинаться как "Имя Отчество Фамилия (????—????) — тувинский ...". --Kaganer (talk) 14:39, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

Tuvan name order is family name followed by given name. Toka Salchak, Ondar Kongar-ool, Tamdyn Aldar, Oorzhak Sherig-ool, Shoigu Sergey Kuzhugetovich, etc. --Боршоди Стейcи (talk) 20:25, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
Don't worry ;) Specific format of page names is result of consensus of native speakers (fixed above) and do not have to strictly follow the "natural" lock of the name reading. The decision is based on the experience of Russian Wikipedia - for useful reading categories content and more clearly separation of the "family name" (last name) in the "full name" structure. In the text of articles should be "direct" order - "First Middle Last (YYYY—YYYY) — ...", but in the pagename - "Last, First Middle". --Kaganer (talk) 20:55, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
Such "library" format of pagenames also allows further convenient to use a hint (search suggestions) in the search box. This is especially important because modern Tuva peoples (also as other peoples in the Russia) have long names of three parts. --Kaganer (talk) 21:07, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
As example, "Shoigu Sergey Kuzhugetovich" is incorrect (this "bureaucratic" style only). You can use either "direct"/"natural" form as "Sergey Kuzhugetovich Shoigu", or technical (library, catalog) form as "Shoigu, Sergey Kuzhugetovich" with clearly separating "family name" (instead using "sortkey"). Today consensus for use "Sergey Kuzhugetovich Shoigu" in the text, and "Shoigu, Sergey Kuzhugetovich" in the pagename.--Kaganer (talk) 21:18, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
My point is that "Sergey Kuzhugetovich Shoigu" is not the natural form. His name is given that way when using the Russian language only. In the Tuvan language, the natural name order is the same as what you call the library/catalog form. That's why you got consensus! This is the Tuvan language Wikipedia. Tuvan readers will not be confused by using the natural form in article names and don't need a comma to clearly separate the family name. --Боршоди Стейcи (talk) 23:22, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
OK, please discuss about this with Tuvan native speakers, who do contributions into this test wiki. This was my proposal, but not a my decision ;) My goal - unification only, in any case.--Kaganer (talk) 01:15, 8 June 2012 (UTC)

Форма создания статьи [edit]

Сейчас в форме создания статьи упомянуты два несуществующих шаблона:

  • preload - Template:Wp/tyv/Standard content for new page
    шаблонный макет статьи, вставляемый в форму редактирования при создании новой статьи
  • editintro - Template:Wp/tyv/Instructions
    текст, отображаемый над формой редактирования новой статьи

Нужно бы придумать им тувинские названия, и заполнить по типу русскоязычных шаблонов:

Инструкция над окном создания статьи [edit]

Инструкцию я предлагаю сначала сделать на русском, я помогу её оформить, а затем можно будет перевести на тувинский или сделать двуязычной. --Kaganer (talk) 14:30, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

Я сделал заготовки вариантов инструкции
--23:33, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

Шаблонная структура статьи [edit]

Можно, кстати, сделать заготовки шаблонной структуры статей разных типов, и, соответственно, несколько кнопок (для создания статей о людях, городах/сёлах, организациях, событиях, ...) --Kaganer (talk) 16:27, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

Было бы очень удобно. Поддерживаю) --Agilight (talk) 16:46, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

Названия служебных разделов [edit]

Весь этот раздел нужно перенести на отдельную страницу с именем вида "Wp/tyv/Википедия:Именование служебных разделов", а здесь оставить только ссылку.

Для шаблонов статей неплохо было бы унифицировать названия служебных разделов. Прошу участников добавить в последнюю колонку таблицы переводы, которые они считают правильными.

Тема / Topic Русский English Тыва дыл
общие // common // ниити
См. также See also База көр
Примечания Notes, Annotations (no citations) Тайылбырлар
Источники References, Sources (citations) Дөс, Үнген дөзү, Үндезиннер
Литература Literature, Bibliography Литература, Чечен чогаал
Ссылки (Внешние ссылки ?) Links (External links) Шөлүдүг, Шөлүлге I've seen both words used. Plural is Шөлүдүглер External link is Даштыкы шөлүдүглер.
люди // people // кижилер perhaps. Кижи normally means человек.
Биография Biography Намдар биография // биографический; намдар тоожу биографическая повесть. Если как раздел, то "намдар", а если как подзаголовок в статье о ком-нибудь, то "намдары", типа притяжательный падеж. I wondered if it is the same with bibliography. чарлалы = A person's publications.
Достижения Achievements (from Google translate) Чедиишкин plural is Чедиишкиннер
Публикации Bibliography Чарлал 1) объявление, оповещение; публикация (чарлалдар = публикации)
города // cities // хоорайлар
География Geography География
История History Төөгү
Транспорт Transportation Транспорт, Аргыжылга
Известные жители Famous people Сураглыг чурттакчылар (famous residents)
организации, учреждения //
companies, organisations // организациялар, албан чери (албан черлери)
История History Төөгү
Известные сотрудники Famous staff Сураглыг ажылдакчылар
Известные преподаватели Notable faculty Сураглыг башкылар
Известные выпускники Notable alumni Сураглыг доозукчулар
Известные выпускники и преподаватели Notable alumni and faculty Сураглыг доозукчулар болгаш башкылар

Notes vs References [edit]

See example with difference with using: en:Mercury (planet). --Kaganer (talk) 21:17, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

Some articles, like en:Mercury (planet), make a distinction between "notes" and "references". (Also see en:Star Trek III: The Search for Spock.) Traditionally, "footnotes" in a book are a combination of both comments and citations so articles like en:Tuvans and en:Hungarian prehistory (and possibly ru:Меркурий?) combines the two. "Sources" or "Bibliography" or "Further reading" are works consulted but not cited and in alphabetical order. I think the policy on the English Wikipedia is to leave the format up to the individual article and not have it standardized across the entire wiki. I know this doesn't answer your question on which Tuvan words to use. тайылбырлар can be used for "notes" like in en:Mercury (planet). I don't know if it can be used for the combined "notes" and "references" style. дөзү is a perfectly good word for "sources", but maybe чарлалдар is better for the alphebetized list of works consulted. I'll try to see if I can't get a better answer. --Боршоди Стейcи (talk) 02:33, 15 June 2012 (UTC)
In the Tuvan books I have, it looks like "литература" is used for "bibliography", like on ru:Меркурий. --Боршоди Стейcи (talk) 03:05, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

Here is a response I received regarding how to translate "footnote": "I would translate the "Примечания" as "Немелде тайылбырлар". But in case of such an article (ru:Меркурий) I would say "Үндезиннер" ("Sources")." "Немелде тайылбырлар" is good for annotations, "Үндезиннер" for footnotes/citations/references (probably even дөзү too), and "литература" for further reading/references/bibliography (alphebetized list of publications). --Боршоди Стейcи (talk) 22:58, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

Recent changes [edit]

Dear collegues! Please check recent changes by User:188.254.102.18. --Kaganer (talk) 17:50, 7 December 2012 (UTC)

  • Чаа өскерлиишкиннер vs. Сайтта чаартылгалар - (new changes vs. site updates) I had to look up what чаартылга meant and I'm happy to learn this new word because I have need of it elsewhere. :) I like it.
  • Шөлүлге/Холбаа vs. Ссылкалар - It's a Russian loanword. I prefer the use of perfectly reasonable native Tuvan words. Tuvan on the web is relatively new and as a result I see little problem with new uses for old native words. It's an exercise being performed by Tuvans which can be seen for example here [1].
  • Чедиишкиннер vs. Чедиишкиннери - Fine. It's a possessive form referencing the person who owns the achievements.
  • Немелде тайылбырлар vs. Тайылбырларлар - I'm not certain what the change means. Немелде тайылбырлар (additional comments/notes) was suggested to me as a translation for Примечания from a Tuvan friend who also suggested үндезиннер for Источники.
  • Дөзү vs. Медээниң дөзү - It's just more explicit.

--Боршоди Стейcи (talk) 20:09, 7 December 2012 (UTC)

I cannot get a communication with this person User:188.254.102.18.
He have made some mistakes like "Тайылбырлар[лар]". It should to be just a "Тайылбырлар".
"Немелде тайылбырлар" - "Additional notes", "Тайылбырлар" - Notes.
"Медээниң дөзү" is not correct sentences, because it is used for news, but not for a articles. Mb "Чүүлдүң дөзү" is suitable, but it sounds like a "Sources of article", but not just "source". For economy "Дөс, дөзү" more suitable. Initial form of this word is "дөс". "Дөзү" is the genitive case of "Дөс". "Дөс" also suitably translates as "root".

In Cөстүк is given form "Үнген дөзү, Үнер дөзү" - "Источник" - "Sources". In the end, I suggest to use word "Дөс" in Initial case, and "Дөзү" for Genitive case. "Үндезин" - better used in other meanings like "основа, базис".

Чаа өскерлиишкиннер vs. Сайтта чаартылгалар (recent changes, new changes | updates in site) - each other is needed. I suppose Сайтта чаартылгалар (Сайт чаартылгалары - Site updates) fits for global updates like a global changes of design or changes of a structure of site. "Чаа өскерлиишкиннер" - more appropriate for templates, articles, categories.
Шөлүлге/Холбаа vs. Ссылкалар. Ссылкалар - cannot be a adequate translation. Also "Холбаа" cannot be suitable, because it fits for "Связь", but this notation in Tyvan people known from Russian word "Ссылки", not form English. Also "Холбаа" can be useful in other cases, not for Internet language.

In upper mentions I decided to set up a new words for Internet "Шөлүлге | шөлүдүг" (from Russian Ссылки | то, что перекидывает дальше). Now this words are integrating in Tyvan Interface of www.Vk.com. (VKontakte). "Шөлүлге" uses to note a destination site or page, and "шөлүдүг" fits for the string of link (hyperlink). More... you welcome.

Чедиишкиннер | Чедиишкиннери - (Initial case | Genitive case).
Медээ - news (rus: весть, известие, сообщение, сведение, данные, информация, сигнал). In Tyvan interface for Vkontakte is suggested a division: "медээ" - новости, "Медеглел" - "Сообщение", "Медээлел" - "Информация".

I should to get all additional information in next year when I'll visit Tyva, visit Transliteration Commission of Tyva.

It's known Most of Internet notions isn't translated in Tyvan. But owr works with Tyva Interface in Vk.com and WikiInterface will state appropriate words. --Agilight (talk) 02:02, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

General translation comments [edit]

Ah, VK is providing a Tyvan interface? Cool. Facebook has become notorious for not adding new languages[2]. I should sign up finally. --Боршоди Стейcи (talk) 03:27, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

Tyvan Vk Interface translation is in process. We have 64% translated sentences. But it's very hard to state new Tyvan terms and new word. Practically, I have create some new Tyvan words: Четкиде - Online, Дөмен - Domain,...
Also I want to translate Facebook to Тыва дыл... If Facebook admins give me rights to do it, I'll take it!)
It's useful if this works with Tyva Interface will be connected each other. That would be logical.

--Agilight (talk) 16:40, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

Четкиде - Online = Perfect! On the Tyvanet forum we've come up with Улуг-четки for Internet. Also, please join the Drupal Tuvan Translation project. --Боршоди Стейcи (talk) 03:24, 10 December 2012 (UTC)
Facebook has a Translation App, but first Tuvan has to be added to their list of languages. Here's the link to request a new language to translate on Facebook. --Боршоди Стейcи (talk) 17:30, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

In my opinion when there're some new concepts, we should first find its definition on Webster dictionary. For instance, a domain is "a subdivision of the Internet consisting of computers or sites usually with a common purpose (as providing commercial information) and denoted in Internet addresses by a unique abbreviation", so the Tuvan translation of domain should be a literal translation of "Internet subdivision". --114.132.245.189 17:44, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

There's choices in translation tactics and I think good translation means we use all those choices when appropriate (e.g., metaphor, literal, loan) rather than trying to apply one method all the time. The general strategy I've taken is to favor Tuvan words over loanwords, yet in some cases it cannot be helped because maybe the Tuvan word or phrase is already strongly associated with some other meaning and it would confuse readers to try to change that meaning. --Боршоди Стейcи (talk) 18:40, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

Дизайн заглавной страницы [edit]

Вижу попытки как-то развить дизайн заглавной страницы. Чего конкретно хочется добиться? --Kaganer (talk) 00:33, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

Лично сам хочу, чтобы там были видны только что созданные статьи, или недавние статьи. А также случайную статью (если возможно "хорошую"). --Agilight (talk) 05:21, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
  1. Первое - только ботом, к сожалению (или вручную). Автоматический список новых статей не поддерживает фильтрацию по префиксу.
  2. Второе можно сделать случайный выбор из заданного вручную списка (как в ру-вики). Давай список - сделаю.
--Kaganer (talk) 16:20, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
Вот создал бөлүк Category:Wp/tyv/Сайтта чаартылгалар --Agilight (talk) 17:15, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
Вот шаблон Template:Wp/tyv/Сайтта чаартылгалар, который берёт содержимое этой категории. Я добавил его на заглавную стр. --Kaganer (talk) 20:16, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

Структура категорий [edit]

Структура категорий - какой она должна быть? Давайте нарисуем 2-3 верхних уровня...--Kaganer (talk) 16:51, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

Примерная структура базовых категорий / Simple structure of categorization [edit]

Вот примерная структура примерно на основе упрощённой базовой структуры категорий русского раздела (справа можно приписывать перевод, а если категория уже есть — давать ссылку в формате [[:Category:Wp/tyv/<название>|<название>]]):

--Agilight 19:11, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

Potentially useful words for categories [edit]

Here's some potentially useful words for categories from the УСЛОВНЫЕ СОКРАЩЕНИЯ section of the dictionary. --Боршоди Стейcи (talk) 19:34, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

  • Abbreviation - Russian - Tyvan - English
  • ав.— авиация — ужар чүүл - aviation
  • анат.— анатомия — анатомия - anatomy
  • археол. — археология — археология - archaeology
  • архит.— архитектура — архитектура - architecture
  • астр.— астрономия — астрономия - astronomy
  • биол.— биология — биология - biology
  • бот.— ботаника — ботаника - botany
  • бухг. — бухгалтерия — бухгалтерия - accounting
  • вет. — ветеринария — ветеринария, мал эмнелгези – veterinarian science
  • геогр.— география — география - geography
  • геол.— геология — геология - geology
  • геом.— геометрия — геометрия - geometry
  • горн.— горное дело — даг херээ - mining
  • ж.-д.— железнодорожное дело — демир-орук херээ - railroads
  • зоол.— зоология — зоология - zoology
  • иск.— искусство — уран чуул - art
  • лингв.—лингвистика — лингвистика, дыл эртеми - linguistics
  • лит.—литература, литературоведение — литература (чечен чогаал), литература эртеми - literature
  • мат.— математика — математика - mathematics
  • мед.— медицина — медицина - medicine
  • метеор.— метеорология — метеорология - meteorology
  • миф.— мифология — мифология - mythology
  • рел.— религия— шажын-чүдүлге - religion
  • спорт.— физкультура и спорт — күш-культура болгаш спорт - training and sports
  • с. х.— сельское хозяйство — көдээ ажыл-агый - agriculture
  • тех.— техника — техника - industry
  • физ.— физика — физика - physics
  • физиол.— физиология — физиология - physiology
  • филос.— философия — философия - philosophy
  • фольк.— фольклор — аас чогаалы - folklore
  • фото — фотография — фотография - photography
  • хим.— химия— химия - chemistry
  • эк.— экономика — экономика - economy
  • эл.— электротехника— электротехника - electrical engineering
  • этн.— этнография — этнография - ethnography

Мнения / Comments, Points [edit]

Ссылки на календарные статьи / Links to calendar articles [edit]

Замечено, что автоматически формируемые ссылки на каленедарные статьи выглядят неверно. В ближайшее время Agilight исправит на translatewiki.net переводы названий дней недели и месяцев, и можно будет заняться созданием кадендарных статей. --Kaganer (talk) 22:04, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

Days of the week are from native speaker. There's two different ways of naming the months in Tuvan and possibly days of the week as well. One is by number and the other is by borrowing Russian names of the month. The different usages reflect possibly dialectical or socio-political divisions. It would be useful to have a national Tuvan language authority to help. --Боршоди Стейcи (talk) 00:06, 8 June 2012 (UTC)
OK, this also point for achieve consensus (with particitpation Tuvan native speakers). Maybe you have trusted sources (books, media-publications) for your version? --Kaganer (talk) 01:19, 8 June 2012 (UTC)

Edittools [edit]

See Incubator:Community Portal#Edittools. This request should make it easier for editors with a standard Russian keyboard that doesn't have the additional Tyvan letters. We should add a screenshot to the lesson page once edittools is fixed. --Боршоди Стейcи (talk) 17:17, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

Awesome. It's been added. I'll make a screenshot later. --Боршоди Стейcи (talk) 19:20, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

Tyvan-edittools.png

Here's the screenshot. It can be added to the help page.

  1. Look at select list below edit window.
  2. Select Tyvan.
  3. Choose letter.
  4. Letter appears in edit window.

--Боршоди Стейcи (talk) 02:16, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

Thanks! For the future - I have the right to edit of "Edittools" and can quickly add there anything on request ;) --Kaganer (talk) 10:15, 18 June 2012 (UTC)
That's very helpful for us. It's possible that this tools will be on top? --Agilight 16:51, 18 June 2012 (UTC)
Nope ;( --Kaganer (talk) 17:47, 18 June 2012 (UTC)
It is possible to set hotkeys for "өңү" in the editor? --Agilight

Most used messages [edit]

Only 63 messages of the most used Wikipedia messages remain to be translated. We should try to get these translated first so that this Incubator can become a real Wikipedia.

"The requested page title was invalid, empty, or an incorrectly linked inter-language or inter-wiki title. It may contain one or more characters which cannot be used in titles."

"Запрашиваемое название страницы неправильно, пусто, либо неправильно указано межъязыковое или интервики название. Возможно, в названии используются недопустимые символы."

tyv.wikipedia.org [edit]

The URL would be tyv.wikipedia.org. Wikimedia uses the ISO 639 language codes for localization and 'tyv' is the language code for Tuvan. BTW, ТываВики is over here: http://www.tyvawiki.org. That's my website and it is not associated with Wikipedia. --Боршоди Стейcи (talk) 03:56, 29 November 2012 (UTC)

Ok. Is it possible to make a site tyva.wikipedia.org, which will be redirected (accounted for) tyv.wikipedia.org. It will be useful for searching the resource. Cuz, more tyvans is not such good in Internet.

--Agilight (talk) 18:11, 30 November 2012 (UTC)

Попробуйте после открытия обратиться сюда, может быть создадут "перенаправляющий" сайт "tyva.wikipedia". Только не наоборот (когда "перенаправляющий" - tyv.wiki) - отклонят заявку однозначно, потому что в названии сайта должен быть код ISO 639-1/639-3. А то судя по шаблону, вы всерьёз задумались о "существовании" на tyva.wikipedia.org . =) --Tamara Ustinova (talk) 19:06, 1 January 2013 (UTC)

Localization [edit]

I've notived that this encyclopedia used Russian phrase "Википедия" and "энциклопедия" and changed it into "Видибилиином" and "билии номнам".

Every Wikipedia project should have its own translation of the term "Wikipedia". For instance, Tibetan Wikipedia use the term "Wikirigzoi" where rigzoi is the Tibetan term for encyclopedia.

"Билии номнам" is a literal translation of "knowledge book". I'm not familiar to Tyvanian version of vowel harmony. Hope there to be some better translation: idea such as translation from "knowledge book", "categorized books", "knowledge dictionary", etc. are good. In Mongolian it's known as "nebterhei toli" through dictionary; a literal translation from this may also be good. Here's another example: "эрдем сөсдик" treasured dictionary.

"Види" in "Видибилиином" comes from Hawaiian term "wikiwiki/witiwiti", where t/k is unaspirated - as Tyvanian d/g does. The English term "wiki" originated from the same Hawaiian term.

114.132.245.195 15:09, 7 December 2012 (UTC)

Good points. I don't know what the Wikipedia policy is on translating the brand name nor do I know what a Tuvan translation of encyclopedia would be. My Russian-Tuvan dictionary just gives the Russian for this word. If we're allowed to translate the brand name, I say do it. A "book of knowledge" would be something like билиг ному. BTW, dictionary in Standard Tuvan is сөстүк. --Боршоди Стейcи (talk) 20:21, 7 December 2012 (UTC)

It seems to be that other Wikipedias tend to preserve the brand name and translate the word encyclopedia in the slogan "The Free Encyclopedia". See for example Sakha, Mongolian, Manx, Ripuarian, Hawaiian, Tongan, etc.. --Боршоди Стейcи (talk) 20:44, 7 December 2012 (UTC)

I realized what you mean. Эртем - science, treasure. Билиг - knowledge, scale of intelligence. Ном - book...
I'll get this question as soon as possible. --Agilight (talk) 19:22, 8 December 2012 (UTC)

Yes we're allowed to translate the brand name. In fact every language-ethnic entity who is self-confident have its own translation about its own translation of Wikipedia. Like Tibetan ཝེ་ཁེ་རིག་མཛོད, Chinese 維基百科, Korean 위키백과, English Wikipedia, Greek Βικιπαίδεια, Latin Vicipædia, and Russian Википедию. Foreign loan-words are used when one want to express exotic e.g. Encyclopædia Britannica. What we can't have is own domain name - regardless the brand translation is the DNS is ??.wikipedia.org. --114.132.245.189 14:37, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

All Tuvan language material I possess are some books include one describe the Tuvan language near Lake Kanas, so my wordlist may be dialectal. For instance in that book "Tuva" is [dəva]. --114.132.245.189 14:37, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

Also, should we consider Tuvan to be in a Sprachbund with Mongolian? --114.132.245.189 17:33, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

Аңгылал, аңгылам (аңгылаң, аңгылаш) | Категория, Подкатегория [edit]

Я долго решался, на какие слова заменить понятия категория и подкатегория. И решил, что эти слова должны быть близки к словам "класс", "раздел", и их производным глаголам. Рассмотрев вариант перевода "категория" на монгольском языке "ангилал", и проанализировав существование слова "аңгы (аъңгы) / класс" на Тыва дыл, а также существования на Тыва дыл окончания "-лал, -лел", образующее существительное(или прилагательное) из существительных (или с глаголов), решил внести следующие новые слова: "аңгылал/категория", "аңгылам, аңгылаң, аңгылаш/подкатегория".

Пример:үжүк -> үжүглел, бөлүк -> бөлүглел, шүлүк -> шүлүглел Окончание "-ым, -ем, -им..." образует существительные (или прилагательные) из глаголов: адар - адым, базар - базым, күжээр - күжем, садар - садым, сүттээр - сүттем, бижиир - бижим. Окончание "-аң" образует существительные: чыргал - чыргалаң, човаг - човалаң, шоваа - шоваалаң, Окончание "-аш" образует существительные: кылаштаар - кылаш, үлежир - үлеш, далажыр - далаш...

Какие возражения, предложения? --Agilight (talk) 14:39, 17 January 2013 (UTC)

Как будут выглядеть слова для обозначения раздела (подраздела) статьи (то, что по-английски называется "Section")? Они должны отличаться от обозначения категории/подкатегории. --Kaganer (talk) 08:20, 18 January 2013 (UTC)
Солун-дур. аңгыла- translates as "to separate, to divide, to isolate, to cut off, to delimit; to distinguish, to discern, to make out". It could work. Let me ask around too. --Боршоди Стейcи (talk) 18:54, 23 January 2013 (UTC)
Оказывается, точных терминов для "раздел, подраздел" не существует. До сих пор этот термин плыл между понятиями "часть, глава, отрезок"
Я тут поразмышлял и посоветовался со многими учеными:
Үлээр / делить : "Сести игиге үлээр / Делить (разделить) восемь на два". Относится к составным понятиям.
Если мы определим отсюда: Үлег, үлеш / раздел (как результат деления, разделения), тогда по аналогии с аңгылал-аңгылаң можно создать термин үлең, үлем, үлеш (если за "үлег" закрепить старшее понятие).
Также общественное мнение (опрос на сайте ВКонтакте и разбор со специалистами) показывает, что уместнее и логичнее употреблять послелог "-ң", но могут подойти и другие. (Необходимы исследования языка)
"Үлег", "Үлеш" - в некоторых словарях в точности переводятся как раздел, часть, доля. И можно распределить эти термины вполне логично следующим образом:
Үлег/раздел, кезек/часть, үлүг/доля (в более общих значениях).
--Agilight (talk) 14:42, 5 February 2013 (UTC)

In the News [edit]

Congrats Ali! I saw news about your translation efforts. http://www.tuva.asia/news/tuva/5826-tyva-vikipediya.html Keep up the good work. --Боршоди Стейcи (talk) 17:58, 19 January 2013 (UTC)

  • Thanks! I'll try to go on!--Agilight (talk) 08:10, 21 January 2013 (UTC)

Nice job! http://www.tuva.asia/news/tuva/6080-konferenciya-tyva-dyl.html --Боршоди Стейcи (talk) 17:52, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

  • We try) Thanks! What do you think about it?


Tyvan or Tuvan [edit]

Тыва - in native language, Тува - in Russian. Translating this word from Russian will give incorrect speech and then it's impossible restore real speech in Тыва дыл. We even have same problems in Russian, but in Тыва дыл we prefer to Тыва (Tyva), Тыва дыл (Tyvan, Tyva dyl) (like Kyzyl, not Kuzul).

Then "Tyva", "Tyvan" more correct then Tuva, Tuvan. Even in English this problem is involved. But in perspective Tyva (Tyvan) come also in English via new researches of all of Tyvan. --Agilight (talk) 03:53, 30 March 2013 (UTC)

I just see the name of English article about your language, it's spelled as en:Tuvan language. It's good to have a main English name of language on that page, instead of additional names, which are more likable for some users.
Although, word "Tyvan" is possible, so I won't impose and you may revert my edits again. Just respond for your wierd argumentation. Best regards, --Heitler (talk) 06:19, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
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