Talk:Wp/qya/Main Page

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encyclopaedia - parma isto istyaparma;
lasse - (here) article;
Nóritecie - geography;
Lúmequentale - history;
Cuiletecie - biography;
Notie - mathematics (counting);
Carme - art, technology;
Handi - science, lit. understandings;
Serva - Serb (Servandor - Serbia, Servarin - Serbian language);
Romarin - Latin language. --Djordje D. Bozovic (?) 03:47, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

picture - tucie;
Turk - Turco (pl. Turcor, Turkey - Turcondor, Turkish - Turcorin);
Russia - Rusondor (Russian - Ruso, Russian language - Rusorin);
Europe - Európa;
Montenegro - Moron (more + oron > mororon > moron);
World War II - Attea Alatohta;
The Middle Ages - Enya Randa;
The Serbian Revolution - Ohtale Servar ar Turcorwa. --Djordje D. Bozovic (?) 11:59, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Есть где-то уроки этого языка? Are there somewhere Quenya lessons in any european, turk or slavonic language? --Yaroslav Zolotaryov 12:06, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Попробуй здесь, здесь или здесь или... Об этом языке много писано! :) --Djordje D. Bozovic (?) 12:19, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Было бы хорошо, если бы ты сделал уроки этого языка в википедии. Я бы может писал тогда в твою энциклопедию. И я приглашал бы туда славян и переводил бы твои уроки на сибирский. У меня есть также сообщество в ЖЖ, там 200 человек, которые интересуются языками, и я мог бы копировать твои уроки туда. Может, ты собрал бы людей и открыл хорошую википедию, какую ты хочешь --Yaroslav Zolotaryov 01:15, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

Но знаешь, уже есть очень хорошие уроки этого языка в сайты Ардаламбион и Парма Тйэлпелассива, чьи ссылки я тебе дал. Люди которые их писали, Хелге Коре Фавскангер и Торстен Ренк, очень хорошо знают этот язык и другие языки Толкина и их имена очень известные. Но я мог бы написать какие-то уроки (здесь? в сербском или русском викиучебнике?), что бы мы могли имать свободные уроки этого языка. Но есть тоже статьи о квеньи в английском викиучебнике: здесь, но это не уроки, а просто грамматика. На днях я делаю свой сайт об этом языке и может быть я мог бы там поставить какие-то уроки квеньи. (но это бы вероятно было по-сербски). --Djordje D. Bozovic (?) 01:37, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

было бы интереснее делать уроки здесь, я бы помог тебе с переводом их на русский, ведь русский язык знает очень много людей, и они бы заинтересовались этим. --Yaroslav Zolotaryov 01:53, 22 August 2006 (UTC) Ведь будет гораздо удобнее для славян, если будут уроки для них на славянском языке! --Yaroslav Zolotaryov 01:54, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

My apologies if this came up above (I can't read Serbian), but about Moron (more + oron > mororon > moron): "Moron" in English has certain connotations. Perhaps a slightly different version might be better? If it was Tolkien's original name I wouldn't change it, but in creating words/names we've certain freedoms... perhaps just Móron or Morón? Editor at Large 22:35, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

It was Russian, actually. Well, I suppose Morron could work as well (mororon > morron).

So does en:Fucking, Austria... It's a common thing that words of one language have 'connotations' in another one. I'm opposed to creating words based on their possible connotations in other languages (by the way, some attested Quenya words have bad connotations in natural languages, should we evade them as well?). I also think I have seen Moron in reference to Montenegro before, so I guess it should stay the way it is. haltia 23:30, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

And what about the word Teleporno, which was created by Tolkien himself? :D --Djordje D. Bozovic (?) 18:08, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Sorry but what is Cenyale in Cenyale Quendion under the subject I istyaparma?--Bellenion 22:53, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

It should mean 'science', so 'cenyale Quedion' would be 'science about the Quendi' or 'Quendistics'. I left out 'd' from cend- ('to read' or 'to study'), because it was also left out by Tolkien in 'Quenya' (the stem is quend-). --Djordje D. Bozovic (?) 18:08, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Concerning the welcome message "Mai analendelye ana Wikipedia, lehta istyaparma!". I propose a few changes to this. My suggestion is "Mai utúlielyë Wiciperianna, i lerina rindaparië!".

• Mai utúlielyë "well you have come"; as "welcome" instead of mai *analendelye "well you approached".
• Wiciperianna "to Wikipedia"; using the allative case, instead of a preposition ana.
• lerina "free" of things: not guarded, reserved, made fast, or "owned"; more descriptive of Wikipedia than lehta "free, released".
• *rindaparië "encyclopedia, lit. circular learning"; this is a neologism based on the etymological root of encyclopedia (Greek "circular education"). By combining rinda "circular" and the gerund of #par- “learn” (acquire information, not by experience or observation, but by communication, by the instruction, or by written accounts, of others) we get *rindaparië.

I would very much appreciate a discussion on this matter, especially regarding the translation of "encyclopedia" into Quenya (istyaparma is probably the better word as it is fairly self-explanatory compared to rindaparië). --Ohtavala 21:54, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Contents 1 Question on translations 2 Hmm... 3 new 4 And another 5 Hi and good luck 6 Name 7 Font 8 At Meta

[edit] Question on translations

1. Should proper names (of countries, places, etc.) be translated? We don't translate Quenyan names into English, so should English names be translated into Quenya? I'm thinking primarily of people, but places might also apply. I'm going to start the article on Tolkien (if you haven't already), but should I find a translation for his name?

   Personally, I have translated some place names such as Oromixa for Mokra Gora, Oron laurinasondeva for Zlatibor, or Moron for Montenegro, but I have also just adopted some into Quenya, such as Servandor for Serbia. I think that geographical terms should generally be just adopted to Quenya orthography. Generally, because you can always make a translation if you think that it can be appropriate for a Noldo. :) As of the personal names, in our world they are usually translated if those are names of the kings, popes, etc., so it could work as well for Quenya. However, I think that all names can be both adopted and translated as well (using Quenya lapseparma and Now We Have All Got Elvish Names). Do what ever you find more appropriate, because we can always make a redirect from the original name or the other versions, so it is totally safe. :) And one more thing, when adopting foreign names to Quenya orthography, always make sure that the adopted name will be able to be written in Tengwar, that is the only rule. ;) --Djordje D. Bozovic (?) 21:59, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

   There is no article about Tolkien, so you are welcomed to write it. :) Just have in mind that all the articles should start with Test-wp/qya/ because this is a test Wikipedia. You should also put every article into the category:Quenya (the categories here don't work the same as in a real Wikipedia, unfortunately). Sorry, I have now seen that this is not necessary any more! --Djordje D. Bozovic (?) 21:59, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

2. Should we have a section on the talk pages or create a subpage where we offer a translation, in case people are having problems? Or maybe create a table with each word translated? It would mean a lot of work, but I think it might be worth it in the long run, to keep people from getting frustrated.

   Well, I don't think that full translations are necessary, but it is important to have a list of those unattested words that you have introduced by yourself (just like I did on the top of this page :)). In the beginning (until we get a real Wikipedia, if we get it at all ;)), you can put them here, on this talk page, but you can also put them on the talk pages of those articles that you have made. It is fully up to you to choose. :D --Djordje D. Bozovic (?) 21:59, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

   Or even better (actually the best!), use the new dictionary instead of the talk pages. Just make sure to mark that you have introduced a new word, they shouldn't be threated the same as the attested words. --Djordje D. Bozovic (?) 18:09, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Maara omentie! It is still hard to understand without a dictionary. I can do this work and write the dictionary from the sources you had provided above. I mean the dictionary in the wiki. Will it be good? --Yaroslav Zolotaryov 02:50, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Test-wp/qya/Test dictionary --Yaroslav Zolotaryov 02:54, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Very nice. I will add to it when I upload my article(s).

1. Is anyone working on this page still? Could someone come up with an idea about the translation of "Hungary"?

For "Hungary" a good starting root would be the native: "Magyar". Make it comply with Quenya orthography, "magiu" ("iu" is the only available diphthong starting with /j/). So that would be a good starting root. "-ondor" being the typical local, "magiundor" would be my suggestion. --Puellanivis 22:02, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Hmm...

I need a word for "teach" for my Tolkien article. I can't find anything similar, even, whether instruct or train or educate. I'm using four different sources, and still! Also, should "the Inklings" be translated? Editor at Large 22:35, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

Maybe the wiki group should invent some radixes, but not only words? The original dictionary is about 3000, this is too small for a modern language. So some basic words SHOULD be developed, not only derivatives. We can mark them in the dictionary as "unofficial". --Yaroslav Zolotaryov 00:15, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

Try to make something like to give knowledge (*istyanta, *istanta). Like *istyaparma for encyclopaedia: knowledge-book. Then add it to the dictionary. :) --Djordje D. Bozovic (?) 16:03, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

In his Neo-Quenya translation of the Writings of St. John, Helge K. Fauskanger used the word saita- for "teach, make know" (derived from the stem SAY, by adding the causative ending -ta). I think saita- would be preferred over istyanta-. --Ohtavala 18:47, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

[edit] new

ni lá mára tec Quenya lambë mal ni anta ta lelya. manen elyë pol cenda ta mára?

Thank you. --Djordje D. Bozovic (?) 12:35, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] And another

Aiya! Mára omentië. Essenya ná Qua ar merenye tecë! Hoping to be able to help, though my Quenya is a little rusty! Qua 05:23, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hi and good luck

Excuse my English, but I would like to say hi and good luck on becoming a full Wikipedia.

Pardona mi Espanyol, pero me gustaria decir hola y buena suerte en estando una Wikipedia completa.66.205.108.59 03:44, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

Thank you very much! Muchas gracias - did I spell it correctly? --Djordje D. Bozovic (?) 15:32, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Yes, everything is spelled correctly.

Si, todo es escribido corectemente.66.205.108.59 01:53, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Name

Shouldn't it be named "Wicipedia" or something like it? --200.250.218.107 00:57, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

I've left Wikipedia in original because I didn't know how to "Eldarize" it. Wicipedia is absolutely the same thing as Wikipedia; we need to make up a little bit more "Quenya-looking like" form instead. --Djordje D. Bozovic (?) 18:02, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

"Wikiparmar" would be a "Wikibooks", but what about "Wikístyaparma"? 200.250.242.23 01:59, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Absolutely great! Bravo, well done. :) That's a fine translation for Wikipedia. --Djordje D. Bozovic (?) 15:11, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Since Quenya doesn't use the letter "k", I think that a change to "Wicístyaparma" should be made. Also, "Wiki" means "fast", which could be translated as "linta", "tyelca" or "larca" in Quenya - shouldn't this be considered? After all, we are dealing with a language from a world where Hawaii never existed :) 82.3.50.59 23:45, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Looking through a few of the other Wikipedias. Japanese, Russian, Latin and Arabic, all of them have simply transliterated (and matched to the language orthography) "wikipedia" without any change in it. In fact, the Chinese version uses "wéi jī băikē" literally meaning: "link/maintain/preserve base/foundation encyclopedia". It's clear that it as well is using "wiki" as it's primary beginning word. We shouldn't fly in the face of tons of wikisynergy by getting rid of the wikiroots that give this wikiproject the wikispace for its wikiideas.... OMG, I think I just broke myself... I like "Wicístyaparma" If in doubt, yeah "Wicípedia" should be used. It has name recognition after all. --Puellanivis 22:34, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

I concur in the approach of just changing Wikipedia to agree with Quenya orthography and phonology. The letter d is only permitted in the clusters nd, ld and rd in Quenya, so the alternatives would be Wicipendia, Wicipeldia or Wiciperdia. I'd prefer the first. Apparently, when adapting words to Quenya phonology, "as in native words [...] post-vocalic d becomes r" (ref:Neo-Quenya Gospel of Matthew). So the correct Quenyarization of Wikipedia would be Wiciperia. Does anyone have any thoughts or comments on this? --Ohtavala 23:59, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Font

Does there any official font for Tengwar exist? If yes I think this Wikipedia should be written in it.

We have been discussing the use of Tengwar Annatar or some other Tengwar font. There is a proposal to include Tengwar in Unicode, and that could be the 'official' Tengwar font if accepted. --Djordje D. Bozovic (?) 18:03, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

This is a good idea, but might prove hard to do, since a transcriber program is needed to write with tengwar properly. 82.3.50.59 23:30, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] At Meta

How can someone re-activate the proposal at meta ([1])? 200.250.249.47 23:32, 9 April 2007 (UTC)